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Post by featherlove on Jan 5, 2014 22:48:34 GMT 10
I have quite a few budgies i enherited from my dad, who died a few months ago. Mum wasnt able to look after them so i took them all .. anyways, there was a pair on eggs, so i let her hatch them amd it was all going well till they started to feather up. there are 3 about 4 weeks old, and one that is about 2 and a half weeks old. The mother has been plucking their feathers out! .. then a few days ago she kicked the older 3 out of the box.. upon picking them up, i noticed they were very bruised and had bite marks on them. I decided that enough was enough and brought them inside. the next day i went out, and the smaller one, also who had been plucked bald and bite marks and one bruise on his head.. they were all very listless and distressed as you would be if ur parents were beating you! .. I have four of them in a box, with bits of blanket covered with papertowel for them to keep warm, and i cover the box. It was sweltering here yesterday, and today they dont seem to be emptying their crops like they were. I have given them some formula tonight but havent given them as much, to see if it empties. I fear they got dehydrated somewhat yesterday and this has caused them some issues with their crop? They are settling, and sleeping currently, they just didnt seem as happy today as they did yesterday and I am a bit worried  I have read some apple cider vinegar ( i have the one from the health food shop as my husband uses it for gout) should I give them a few drops of that in the morning perhaps? I dont know what to do.. Cant really afford a vet bill on top of everything else right now  any help gladly appreciated |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 6, 2014 8:38:49 GMT 10
Follow up: So this morning i woke up at 6.15am .. ( their last feed last night was about 9.30pm) mixed up some formula but made it quite watery .. i also added some apple cider vinegar (braggs brand) i would say i gave them about 4 to 5 drops . mixed it with a bit of formula first, and gave them to them, and followed that with the watery formula feed.. i didnt fill them up .. i just gave them half of what i would of normally. They woke up with still food in their crop, its almost like they took the water content from the food but the formula was kind of left behind.. if that makes sense.. its still palatable and its definately not filled there crop, its just a bit left.. ( one bird has more than the others) I have just checked them then, and it seems to of gone down a bit since earlier this morning on all the birds.. but im waiting at least 5 hours before i feed them again .. they seem a bit more lively too.. I am wondering if they need some Pedialyte or whatever the equivelant is here in australia for their dehydration.. somewhere i read coconut water too is good.. but I am not sure where u would obtain it .. for now i soldier on with these guys and hope they make it through ..
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Post by avinet on Jan 6, 2014 9:52:30 GMT 10
Follow up: So this morning i woke up at 6.15am .. ( their last feed last night was about 9.30pm) mixed up some formula but made it quite watery .. i also added some apple cider vinegar (braggs brand) i would say i gave them about 4 to 5 drops . mixed it with a bit of formula first, and gave them to them, and followed that with the watery formula feed.. i didnt fill them up .. i just gave them half of what i would of normally. They woke up with still food in their crop, its almost like they took the water content from the food but the formula was kind of left behind.. if that makes sense.. its still palatable and its definately not filled there crop, its just a bit left.. ( one bird has more than the others) I have just checked them then, and it seems to of gone down a bit since earlier this morning on all the birds.. but im waiting at least 5 hours before i feed them again .. they seem a bit more lively too.. I am wondering if they need some Pedialyte or whatever the equivelant is here in australia for their dehydration.. somewhere i read coconut water too is good.. but I am not sure where u would obtain it .. for now i soldier on with these guys and hope they make it through .. Sorry to read of your problem with the baby budgies. A couple of questions - what temp is the food when you feed it? What hand rearing mix are you using? Nothing wrong with apple cider vinegar - I don't use it but some claim benefits from it. And an electrolyte for birds is Spark, from Vetafarm - most good pet shops should sell it, although check the expiry date - a slow seller with a short shelf life and so it often expires on the shelf - if it only has a month or tow could be worth getting with a good discount. Actually it can be used well past expiry if kept in the fridge. When you have a slow crop it is important to get that crop emptied otherwise the food just ferments and causes all sorts of problems. Giving a mix of water and Heinz baby apple puree will help keep the bird hydrated, and the apple's pectin also helps the digestive system. Give at the right temp of course - around 42°C. and then gently massage the crop to get the food left in the crop mixe din with the fresh fluid. If the crop empties then start out with the first couple of feeds with a thin hand rearing mix, gradually thickening up to a normal creamy consistency. And keep the feeds quite small initially but feed more frequently as soon as the crop has emptied. Also buy some Nilstat from a chemist - it is a liquid medicine for human babies with thrush - tell the chemist it is for treating Candida in a baby bird. Candida is a yeast like organism that thrives in sour crop environments as part of that fermentation, and if the babies don't have it now they soon will! Give the babies about 0.2 ml 30 minutes before a feed - ideally with a fairly empty crop. It kills the Candida cells by contact and if the crop is full then some of the Candida won't come into contact with the Nilstat. It comes in, from memory, a 24 ml bottle, and costs around $10 last time I got some. Once a budgie (usually the hen) is a feather plucker of her babies she is likely to always be a plucker - that means removing the babies at a fairly young age to prevent the sort of damage you saw here. If usually starts when the first feathers open out, and usually on theback initially. Look for little black spots on the back - dried spots of blood after the feather was pulled. Once you see that then time to remove the baby. If you don't want the hassle of hand rearing then don't let her breed again. good luck with the babies cheers, Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 6, 2014 14:44:47 GMT 10
thanks Mike.. I have written all that down. I dont think its sour crop, i just think they are slow to empty .. I didnt really want to have to hand raise these little ones but I couldnt leave them there to be mistreated by parents either . they do have the black marks like you are saying, and they also have bruises on them from what looks like mum or dad biting them. I have written those things down and will get them from the chemist this afternoon
the food I have been serving them has been at 42c .. and is neocare from vetafarm. I have been mixing it up fairly watery so they could get used to it as well, as its only been four days.. the mum and dad are now with the other birds and i wont allow them to breed again .. I havent been this sleep deprived since having my own babies 15 or so years ago ..
thanks for the advice .. will keep you posted
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Post by featherlove on Jan 6, 2014 16:47:22 GMT 10
the only thing on my shopping trip before the storm hit i couldnt get was the spark .. i will go look for some of that tomorrow .. by the way they ALL loved the apple puree .. i fed them with a spoon, and made sure it was nicely warmed up for them .. they were all pretty lively this afternoon, just that darn little bit of playdoughy stuff in the bottom of their crop.. hopefully that will get fixed up tonight .. they also said " Mike, we really dont like the taste of that Nylstatin stuff but we know its good for us so we took it anyways" I told the lady in the chemist it was for a baby bird.. she goes how old is your baby??..
i said i have four of them, and they are feathered.. lol her face was a picture ..
thank you for all your help.. lets hope they get better through the night .. cheers
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Post by avinet on Jan 6, 2014 21:52:55 GMT 10
No, they all hate the taste of Nylstat and I have had that strange look when buying the stuff as well - especially being in my 60's and wanting a baby medicine. Neocare is a good food, not the very best but the best easily available in pet shops. Hope they are continuing to improve - don't forget to give the gentle massage to mix in th elump of ledft over food. They do not need feeding overnigfht - I would be feeding them at 3 weeks at around 10 pm and 7 am so you can get your 8 hours sleep  During that time the crop should have emptied. During the day the crop can have a little food in it when the next feed occurs, as long as it empties overnight. cheers, Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 7, 2014 9:51:04 GMT 10
there last meal of the day at 10pm was some apple puree.. I figured that sitting in their crop for that 8 hours will help a lot to push it all thru .. and it worked a treat! they were awake at 5.30am chirping away happily waiting and ready to eat! .. their crops were empty, and they looked so much happier.. the smallest one is still a bit of a worry as he is so under sized but he too is chirping and ate a good breakfast so I just have to give him extra care <3 i made them some watery than normal formula, and spoon fed them ( i spoon fed the apple puree as it was so much easier than using a syringe because of how sticky it is!) They settled.. and then slept till 9 .. woke up.. and empty crops again .. fed them some more formula just now and they ate well..
I cant thank you enough for your help Mike ..
cheers
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Post by avinet on Jan 7, 2014 22:20:42 GMT 10
there last meal of the day at 10pm was some apple puree.. I figured that sitting in their crop for that 8 hours will help a lot to push it all thru .. and it worked a treat! they were awake at 5.30am chirping away happily waiting and ready to eat! .. their crops were empty, and they looked so much happier.. the smallest one is still a bit of a worry as he is so under sized but he too is chirping and ate a good breakfast so I just have to give him extra care <3 i made them some watery than normal formula, and spoon fed them ( i spoon fed the apple puree as it was so much easier than using a syringe because of how sticky it is!) They settled.. and then slept till 9 .. woke up.. and empty crops again .. fed them some more formula just now and they ate well.. I cant thank you enough for your help Mike .. cheers Glad to hear they are happy little budgies, great news cheers, Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 8, 2014 19:59:18 GMT 10
update: So its day 9 for these little darlings and I have continued with the nystatin plus adding apple puree to the formula.. I have also been giving them apple puree instead of a feed if their crop is still rather full at that time. They have now built HUGE appetites and all eat vigorously, to the stage where i have to stop them as they fill right up .. they are a lot brighter, and even the smallest one that worries me, has a good appetite and chirps and chatters away at food time. I am a bit worried about his developmental progress as his eyes still havent yet opened fully, and im sure is over two weeks old now. Their feathers are also coming back and they are all spikey but its nice to see them starting to get some plumage They all went to bed with full crops and I will leave them now till the morning unless they wake and fuss. Although when i check them through the night they tell me off for opening the lid! lol.. I am still on tender hooks but I am a lot more hopeful for these four bubs than i was a week ago. I will continue to keep you all posted |
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Post by avinet on Jan 10, 2014 22:25:09 GMT 10
Sounds like they are coming on OK - looking forward to some photos of them when they are weaned!
If they are doing well then the Nylstat can be reduced to once a day and finished with after the weekend
cheers,
Mike
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Post by featherlove on Jan 15, 2014 9:35:13 GMT 10
This is when i first brought them inside 15 days ago. .. they look pretty sad dont they .. they were really weak, couldnt even hold their own heads up |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 15, 2014 9:36:12 GMT 10
This is about a week or so later.. they are so much stronger, holding their own heads up and being demanding as they should be. Attachments:
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Post by featherlove on Jan 15, 2014 9:38:29 GMT 10
i took this one yesterday.. day 14 of being hand fed. As you can see they are bright eyed and growing back their feathers. The biggest one of them all doesnt even sound like a baby.. he trills and chats away in budgie language so i think its time to start offering him some other foods. He can go in with my other inside budgies a few hours a day to learn how to eat .. they are good at teaching bubs as i have done this before hopefully soon they will all be able to fly Attachments:
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Post by avinet on Jan 15, 2014 21:03:34 GMT 10
i took this one yesterday.. day 14 of being hand fed. As you can see they are bright eyed and growing back their feathers. The biggest one of them all doesnt even sound like a baby.. he trills and chats away in budgie language so i think its time to start offering him some other foods. He can go in with my other inside budgies a few hours a day to learn how to eat .. they are good at teaching bubs as i have done this before hopefully soon they will all be able to fly They were in a mess when you got them out - they would not have survived if left in there. Looking nice and healthy now but you may find their feathers are a bit of a mess until they go through their first moult in a few months time. well done cheers, Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 16, 2014 6:55:27 GMT 10
they have been practising their wing flapping.. lol its pretty cute .. yesterday I put them in a small cage for the day, just so that if they want to get around and investigate they can, or if they wish they can hide and huddle under the blanket/rags, which they seem to love to do .. the two darker coloured ones try and be bold and get out to have a look around, especially when they are getting hungry.. but I am going to continue to put them back in the plastic tub box at night time and have them in my room, just so I can keep a good check on them.. Once they feather up, I will take more pics.. I am expecting shabby looking feathers for a little while .. thanks Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 17, 2014 8:19:37 GMT 10
UPDATE: Seeing as i have been using this as a bit of a diary blog about these feathered little darlings, I figured I would continue to keep going, as you never know when it just might help someone else out i the similar situation.
Now these guys are around the 5 week mark I am thinking.. unfortunately due to my father passing away and a whole load of other stuff in my life, i wasnt really able to document when they were hatched etc to the day, but I am sure it was before christmas .. The youngest one would be around 4 weeks old now. One of them is trilling like a full grown budgie .. he sounds so cute as he looks at me and chirps
So I have started them on pellets that I have crushed up with a rolling pin, and they are interested and peck away at it.. not really sure what to do with it, but they are at least trying. I have placed a water container, nice and low down for them too.. I will continue to feed them, but not as much ( with the exception of the youngest one who still needs a fair bit of care) and let them gradually ween ..
I have read a lot about weaning on the internet and it seems there is no fast and set rules to how to do it..
I will also offer them some millet spray but I have at the moment run out, so will endevour to do that some time in the next few days.
Also i have noticed the youngest feeding from the bigger ones, is this normal? i couldnt work out what was going on, as his crop seemed fairly empty, I went to feed him an hour later, and there was more there than when i checked. I also see them feeding him when he chirps at them.. its really cute, and I dont want to move him away from them as he is really bonded with them.. they clean and preen him and cuddle up to him when he seems lost..
Anyways thats it from me today.. will update again soon .. and more pics soon, their feathers are growing fast!
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Post by featherlove on Jan 17, 2014 14:52:01 GMT 10
Update: The youngest littlest one, has once again become a bit ill. He is still hungry and wanting food, and chirping, but his crop is like a balloon.. its swollen and doesnt seem to want to go down. I have treated him again with Nystatin, and given him some apple. I also gave him some coconut water as I drink the organic stuff myself, it was in the fridge and I thought it might help him if he is thirsty. I guess i will treat him again at bedtime and offer him some apple puree until this balloon look goes down. Not sure what else i can do for him. The rest is up to mother nature.
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Post by avinet on Jan 20, 2014 21:24:03 GMT 10
Update: The youngest littlest one, has once again become a bit ill. He is still hungry and wanting food, and chirping, but his crop is like a balloon.. How is the little baby doing - did you get the crop sorted out again? Hopefully the others are still doing OK cheers, Mike |
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Post by featherlove on Jan 22, 2014 13:30:23 GMT 10
Hi mike.. the little baby is doing quite poorly.. he picks up and goes well for what seems half a day or so, then backslides .. his crop is quite squishy to the touch but it blows up with what seems like a lot of air. I am feeding him the same way i feed the others, heating the food, sterilizing his containers and feeding things, I am being so careful with EVERYTHING but he fails to florish. I will continue to keep treating him, and see if he picks up and doesnt actually slide backwards again but I am starting to think there is more going on here than just a crop issue. He was badly knocked around as you can see by the pics and perhaps something else is wrong. I have given him vitamins, I have given him coconut water for his dehydration, apple puree .. i give him watered down food with apple puree and he goes well , like i said for a short time. Today he is not doing well once again even though he will get hungry and run around the box chirping at me for food.. once i feed him, he blows up like a puffer fish and just sits all sad looking .. anyways im doing my best.. sometimes its just not meant to be but i will keep doing what i can for him as for the other three.. they are doing well. Happy in their cage with their millet a bit of seed and some crushed up bird pellets.. even like the occasional munch on silverbeet .. I still feed them morning and night, ( i think because im a sucker) but they are chirping at me less when i go say hello to them, so perhaps they are learning im not a food bus lol.. they are feathering up quite nicely considering their condition and once i get a handle on this little guy and whats going to happen with him I will post some more pics .. thanks for your concern mike.. appreciate it |
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Post by avinet on Jan 22, 2014 21:11:45 GMT 10
Sorry to hear the little one is not doing well - I've been through this situation myself - and I'm afraid it often doesn't turn out well. Generally with those I've had autopsied that have gone like this there has been other issues - often a bacterial infection in the gut which slows the movement of food through the system and therefore causes the crop to not empty and effectively ferment, producing gas.
All you can do is try, and at least the others were saved and are are doing well
cheers,
Mike
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I have read some apple cider vinegar ( i have the one from the health food shop as my husband uses it for gout) should I give them a few drops of that in the morning perhaps? I dont know what to do.. Cant really afford a vet bill on top of everything else right now 
During that time the crop should have emptied. During the day the crop can have a little food in it when the next feed occurs, as long as it empties overnight. 
