neophemas getting along?

[purplehat]

Hi everyone, I'm new! To here, and to Neophemas.

A while back, I found a grass parrot. Well, she found me! She flew into our yard and was nearly tripped over a few times in the driveway. She was very quiet and after I figured she wasn't wild (and that a cat was sure to get her), I caught her.

She looks like a female scarlet-chested. We posted a "found" notice, and she spent her time in a small bird cage where she seemed happy eating and calling. We recently got her a nice big cage for inside. (It's as big as we could find, about 1m wide) She seemed less happy in the large cage, and I thought it might be because she's lonely. The large cage was about 2 weeks ago now..

Yesterday I found a yellow turquoise parrot at a pet shop and brought him home. He seemed nice and healthy and quiet too. So I popped him in the cage yesterday and my "sweet" girl has a nasty side to her! She flies at him with her beak open and she won't let him eat or onto the "best" perches. He is persistent, thankfully, and gets to eat eventually.

So, my question is, will they ever get along? Is this normal for this time in the relationship? I thought she'd be happy for the company. He certainly seems to want to be near her, as he was the last of his kind in the shop.. and chatters away sweetly by himself.. but she's gone mostly quiet (unless she's growling at him - in a birdy-kinda-way) and doesn't want anything to do with this beautiful boy - other than to chase him off.

Oh, and I'm not intending on breeding the two. I only wanted to get her some company.. make her fly around and call more often, as she is starting to get fat and quiet. Well, the flying part worked!

Should I just give it more time?

[anzac]

Hi and welcome. I am relatively new on here too and like you new to neophemas. I can't help much being a newbie but Mike and Greg have been VERY helpful with all my turk questions so I'm sure they'll be able to help you out.
Leanne

[twr]

Hi and Welcome

Thank you for giving this lost soul a new home. Good on you for advertising. Not everyone would do that.

I have no experience with the species you have, but in general I don't think it's a good idea to house birds together straight away like this.

There is no guarantee that any two birds will get on. It can be a bit like us. Not every human female is going to like every human male. Birds can be territorial too & the male has come into her space.

It may work in time, but I would worry a little about leaving them unsupervised in the same cage.

But let's wait to see what the experts say. Like I said, I've never had that species.

Good luck

[avinet]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

The first thing to ask is on what basis did you identify the bird as a female Scarlet Chest - the reason I ask is that the female Scarlets and Turquoisine are very similar and it can be difficult to tell them apart at times. If you can put some photos up w emight be able to tell you, but I have to admit not always from photos.

Now to putting the two birds together - as already been mentioned it is best to keep them in separate cages, but next to each other for an initial period, a week at least. That way they get used to each other without territory problems coming into play. However it is highly likely that they will get used to each other pretty quickly if you keep them in the same cage. It could be a week or a month for this to happen. If he is getting hassled by her then putting in an extra seed and water bowl can ensure he gets enough food without being stressed.

Just a note about the cage - a large cage normally has a large door, and Neophemas an be surprisingly quick. If the cage is outside then you might need to think about making it difficult for them to escape while you are changing seed, water etc or cleaning. If it is inside then make sure doors and windows are closed before servicing the cage.

I would also suggest worming the birds - Vetafarm's Wormout Gel is the best to use. Since their history is basically unknown there is always a risk of worms, which can end up killing them if they are infected.

Finally make sure you use a good quality small parrot seed mix, and give them daily chopped up fruit and veggies. A healthy diet means a healthy bird

Don't hesitate to ask away if you have more questions,

cheers,

Mike

[purplehat]

Thank you to everyone! I'm glad I asked!

I really shouldn't have followed the pet shop guy's advice and just put him in. He was sure that they're so placid that they'll just get along.

There are two food containers and two water containers, and she can't keep him from them. He's quite determined, and he seems younger and fitter than she is, so she gives up before he does. I also give them seeding grasses from the garden, as well as broccoli and celery tops.

Yes, the cage has two big doors, and also 6 small doors to change the food and water, and yes, the cage is in the loungeroom with no outdoor access (except the chimney) but we're careful not to let them escape.

I posted a picture or three on a different forum (non-parrot related forum) and a few members thought she was a scarlet. I think so, too, but if she is a turquoise, I'm not worried. As I said, I'm not wanting to breed them (I breed chickens, and don't need any more baby birds!) I was just looking for a friend for her.

Thanks for the info about worming. I'll get some of the Vetafarm's. Their food is golden cob small parrot mix, but as I said, my girl was getting "chubby".. I put that down to the small cage she was in earlier. Her whole life was food and she LOVES her food. She doesn't like fruit, just green stuff. I still offer things like pear, but she won't eat it.

He seems more flighty around us than she is.. but he's more chatty. Is that a good sign? He sits and whistles and generally keeps himself company. (He's got a higher pitched whistle, and makes more sounds/notes than she does. She's got two notes mostly! She rarely whistles since being in the big cage now though. )

Thanks so much for the advice! Oh, one more question.. should I consider taking him or her out of the cage for a week, or is it too late to try that?

Thanks again!

[twr]

Apr 22, 2011 10:23:32 GMT 10 purplehat said:

Thank you to everyone! I'm glad I asked!

I really shouldn't have followed the pet shop guy's advice and just put him in. He was sure that they're so placid that they'll just get along.

There are two food containers and two water containers, and she can't keep him from them. He's quite determined, and he seems younger and fitter than she is, so she gives up before he does. I also give them seeding grasses from the garden, as well as broccoli and celery tops.

Yes, the cage has two big doors, and also 6 small doors to change the food and water, and yes, the cage is in the loungeroom with no outdoor access (except the chimney) but we're careful not to let them escape.

I posted a picture or three on a different forum (non-parrot related forum) and a few members thought she was a scarlet. I think so, too, but if she is a turquoise, I'm not worried. As I said, I'm not wanting to breed them (I breed chickens, and don't need any more baby birds!) I was just looking for a friend for her.

Thanks for the info about worming. I'll get some of the Vetafarm's. Their food is golden cob small parrot mix, but as I said, my girl was getting "chubby".. I put that down to the small cage she was in earlier. Her whole life was food and she LOVES her food. She doesn't like fruit, just green stuff. I still offer things like pear, but she won't eat it.

He seems more flighty around us than she is.. but he's more chatty. Is that a good sign? He sits and whistles and generally keeps himself company. (He's got a higher pitched whistle, and makes more sounds/notes than she does. She's got two notes mostly! She rarely whistles since being in the big cage now though. )

Thanks so much for the advice! Oh, one more question.. should I consider taking him or her out of the cage for a week, or is it too late to try that?

Thanks again!

If she is already giving up, that sounds promising . But you are there to watch, so it depends on what you are seeing in regard to the level of aggression. I'm a cautious gal & it took me at least a month to remove the divider in my lorikeet's cage, but with them it was instant love & I think they would have been ok together from day 1.

So I think it depends on what you are observing. If you are going to be home a lot this 5 day weekend, that should help you in making your decision.

We like pictures here too. We'd love to see your babies.

[avinet]

I think by now it is best to leave them as they are - just watch over them the next few days. It is very rare for Neophema squabbling to cause any damage so it is mainly keeping an eye on stress levels. And it sounds like the male is pretty laid back and won't stress, and the hen will settle down.

A friend of mine had a similar problem with Bourke Parrots. She lost the male and bought a new male from a breeder friend of mine. The first male was badly hassled by the resident female and after a day she took it back to the breeder and got a different one. The reaction this time wasn't as bad - but it still took 3 or 4 weeks before they could be said to be mates. Now, 3 months later, they look like wanting to breed!

cheers,

Mike

[blucalypt]

Hi & Welcome to the list.
I'm coming in late on this one.
When I change my pairs around, between breeding seasons, I would say it is almost normal for mature hens, either scarlets or turks, to act aggressively towards the strange male, they almost all do it, some worse than others though.
I have had turk pairs which squabble incessantly, right through the breeding season, still breeding away.
But none ever do any damage to the others, and most settle well together at some point.
99% chance they will settle and live happily together, but dont expect too much pair bonding. Neophemas never do much more than feed each other & mate. There is no mutual preening etc., the pair bond is just not that tight.
Bests
Greg

[purplehat]

Oh wonderful, thank you all so much! I'm almost always home so I get to watch them frequently. Yesterday he wasn't allowed to be on the same level as her, but today they've both been on the top perches. Not the same perch, mind, but at least they're on the same level now. I guessed they couldn't do a lot of damage to each other. The most she's done was give him a nip once on the back when he didn't fly away fast enough. She hasn't done that today as far as I can tell, and she's spending less time with her mouth open when he flies around. She's also not "growling" anymore.

He's so sweet, it's almost like he doesn't understand why she doesn't want to be close to him. If nothing else, at least he's got her moving around the cage a lot more now! I have a feeling they'll eventually be friends. I don't have any expectations of them, just that I hope they'll keep each other company. If they really hate being together in a week or two (or three!) I'll consider selling him on I guess. It'd be sad, but if she'd be happier alone (which it didn't seem to me like she was happy alone), then I'd rather she be happy. I'll give it a good amount of time first though!

I'll post a pic or two as soon as I can.

[avinet]

Neophemas are never happy o their own, they always want to have company. Trouble is they are a bit like people - you can put two people together but they are not necessarily going to like each other.

However it sounds like she will come around - in a couple of weeks they will be good friends

cheers,

Mike

[purplehat]

I just had to share!! They were doing the usual, she was on the high perch, he was on the one below, squeaking away to himself.. we look over just now and she's sitting on the same perch as he is, without aggression, without excitement of any kind. He's still squeaking a bit, but he's not looking at her. (It's almost like he doesn't realise she's appeared beside him! lol) I'm taking this as a very good sign!

[gypsy]

First Hi and welcome
Oh thats exciting - fingers crossed that she has decided perhaps he isn't so bad after all
Re-read through it all, and I know I am tired but what are their names? and yes we all love pictures here

[anzac]

Wow by the sounds of it I have very placid turks especially Tilly, my girl. She happily lived with Anzac before he died and now Billy. Thanks for that tip Mike about the neophemas escaping as Billy and Tilly will be going in their own (single door) aviary soon. Atm they just tend to fly down the other end of the aviary and sit there while I change the seed and water. It may be best then to do what I do with the current aviary and have netting over the door (with my other half as back up) so hopefully if anyone flies out they get caught in the netting.

[purplehat]

I read about Tilly and Anzac before when trying to find as much info as I could! I use hessian over the door in the chook pen, and it has prevented a few chook escapee's (not a big deal though!).

Sorry Gypsy, I didn't mention any names because we hadn't decided yet. I didn't want to get too attached earlier just incase someone called saying they've lost a parrot.. I think since getting our boy, we're feeling a lot more comfortable, and he's even provided inspiration for a name for them both!

Our girl is Pip and our boy is Squeak.

He has a VERY high pitched chatter and we couldn't help but call him Squeaky. She has a short call, not really a Pip, but close.

Another question.. would worms cause her to spent a little too much time puffed-up and less active? Since getting Squeak, I'm really noticing how inactive and puffed out Pip is in comparison. Poor girl.

In good news, she's letting him have more time at the feeders, still chases him off the bottom of the cage if she's interested in grasses or bok choy / celery etc.. but they sit closer now on the same levels, but not quite the same branches yet. I'm feeling much more positive about their eventual friendship. She gave him a good nip on the wing the other day, but no damage, no missing feathers, etc. She's coming around though!

[anzac]

Glad to hear that they are settling, hopefully it will be all smooth sailing soon.

[purplehat]

I ordered some Vetafarm Wormout gel from the parrot rescue centre shop online.. and also some "diet" feed. I'm thinking perhaps their right in saying that these native parrots aren't suppose to have any/much sunflower seed. Hopefully they'll both be ok eating it. I'll do some searches to see if anyone recommends it for food for neophemas. I wish I had my camera handy yesterday when they were sitting near each other! It would have showed the difference in their sizes as well.

[anzac]

I hope you have better luck than me with Billy and Tilly. All Tilly wants to eat (besides seed) is apple and lettuce.

[avinet]

Sunflower is a bit like chocolate for us - a little bit is good but too much is definitely bad! For Neophemas not breeding then around 6 seeds a day is fine, and in fact is good, since sunflower contains essential amino acids that are absent in the smaller seeds found in small parrot seed mix. If your seed mix seems to have too much sunflower then buy a good budgie mix, and some grey striped sunflower, and then feed the budgie mix and add yourself the required number of sunflower seeds.

The female's fluffy appearance could be worms, but it may also be any number of other causes - or may even just be the way she likes to sit. If she is sick then she will feel thin - her keel bone on her chest will feel prominent rather than being surrounded by a good layer of chest muscles. I would suggest catching her and feeling her chest to see if she is thin. Also look at her vent - if the feathers around the vent are stained with faeces the she has a problem.

Certainly worm her and her mate when you get the Wormout Gel

cheers,

Mike

[purplehat]

Thank you so much for replying! I am embarrassed to admit, I didn't see the second page here until just now! Oops.
Got the worming medication and the food in the mail today. I mixed the new food in with the new food and it looks a lot better now. I have some grey striped sunflower seeds on hand, so I can add them.

Squeak is very cheeky, loves chewing rope and Pip can't help herself and has to see what he's upto - so he's great at encouraging her to explore everything (even if it is through jealousy!! haha). They're enjoying bok choy, celery, grasses, and ooh! Pip has just found out how good apple tastes after all!

They're not friends yet, so getting a photo of them close together has not been possible. I swear he provokes her into chasing him sometimes. It's almost comical, but most of the time Pip ignores him. She's not chasing Squeak from food or water as much anymore (I have food on each side of the cage, so they don't even have to look at each other when eating!), and they can both eat the goodies from the bottom of the cage with only occasional chasing. I'm sure they'll get along nicely some day.

The Wormout Gel says to add it to the water for 2 days. It sounds like fast acting stuff! I hope it helps Pip feel better. I havn't had to catch her since I put her in the small cage (20th Feb!), and I don't want to stress her out.. so I'm only hoping it's worms. Her vent is clean and droppings in the cage are normal. EXCEPT they gave me a fright the other day when I found some red ones. Only after a few Google searches did I find that it's probably something they ate.. and yes, the favourite perch is bright red.. and they've been enjoying eating it lately. Phew.

How long after I've wormed them would I expect to see an improvement in Pip (assuming it's worms that's causing her slightly "depressed" behaviour)?

Thank you all again for the help and info!

[purplehat]

Just one more update on the Pip & Squeak situation - tonight they've "shared a meal" so to speak, and then ganged-up on me to insist on me replacing their food (by means of staring at me while sitting by the food bowl in question). They're even sharing a perch right now!

He's been a great influence on her. Just by being a normal inquisitive parrot and trying everything, it's encouraged her to touch and chew things she has had access to for so long but never showed any interest in. A bell is a favourite toy right now. I'm really very happy that she's got a friend now.