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Post by avinet on Mar 2, 2008 21:53:52 GMT 10
Just a couple of photos of my daughter's lutino Alexandrine pets. As with all lutino Alexes in Australia they are not pure Alex but have got the yellow by hybridizing with ringnecks. In this case their father was purchased by us in our ignorance about 15 years ago as a pure Alex but we soon realised that Alex (original name there) wasn't and in fact was just a exceptionally large 50/50 Alex/ringneck cross. He is paired with a lage pure Alex hen, Buster, and they usually breed every year. One in four babies should be a yellow daughter but in fact she has only had these two yellow daughters out of around 20 babies. Both of them are about 6 years old, and are lovely natured pets. Their size is typical of a normal hen Alex, and my daughter called them Bella and Baby Bella (the younger one of course). Neither has shown any inclination to breed, and considering their potential mates are their brothers that is probably a good thing. My daughter, Bec, always finds it very hard to part with any of her babies, and it is only the fact that 8 Alexes - along with a Plumhead parrot and an Irish Setter - as pets in a rented house is a bit impractical has stopped her keeping more. cheers, Mike   |
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Post by megzly on Mar 2, 2008 22:08:55 GMT 10
o wow wat a striking bird- i havent seen a lutino alex before but its beatiful
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Post by courtzrocks on Mar 3, 2008 9:43:47 GMT 10
They are gorgeous! I only saw a lutino in person for the first time about a week ago when i got Matches sexed by petiel...she has 2 lutino females.
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Post by silvercloud on Mar 3, 2008 13:38:05 GMT 10
What is the pink suffusion on the head of the first one? Their beaks seem a little smaller than alex's beaks usually are. They're both stunning. ;D
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 3, 2008 18:34:24 GMT 10
nice looking birds there Mike
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Post by Jane on Mar 3, 2008 20:13:09 GMT 10
Lovely to look at  Thanks Mike |
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 3, 2008 21:03:41 GMT 10
I have seen pics of Paulines (petiels girls) and they actually do look alex......or at least the pics I have seen of them they do. I have seen some pics of others that they just look IRN to me. She has posted some pics here but a while ago.
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Post by avinet on Mar 3, 2008 21:54:56 GMT 10
What is the pink suffusion on the head of the first one? Their beaks seem a little smaller than alex's beaks usually are. They're both stunning. ;D That is Baby Bell - and the red coloured feathers are getting slowly more widespread with each moult. Sometimes abnormal red feathers can be a sign of a liver diorder but she has been checked out with blood tests and her liver functions appear normal and she is a very healthy bird so I'm not sure what it signifies. Since she seems dis-inclined to breed we may never know if it is genetic or physiological. In reply to another comment - their beaks are a bit smaller than a normal Alex hen of their body size - probably midway in size between a ringneck and a full Alex. While both birds are a good size for an Alex there is certainly no difficulty if one is familiar with Alexes in picking them as crosses. All Alex colur mutations in Australia have been derived by crossing with ringnecks, just as most Rainbow Lorikeet mutations (especially lutino and olive) are derived from crossing with Scaly-breasts, and most Fisher and Masked lovebirds colours are derived from Peachface mutation colurs. It is virtually impossible to find pure blooded Fisher Lovebirds anymore. In Europe there are a good number of different Alex mutations but they have been mostly derived from wild caught birds imported from Asia. Unlike Australia there has been little hybridizing to derive colours. cheers, Mike |
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Post by pinkdevil on Mar 4, 2008 5:52:13 GMT 10
Does the crossing of birds to get different colour mutations apply to all birds? It seems so by the look of it. I had often wondered how the colour mutations began in the first place.
Mike you wrote... "In Europe there are a good number of different Alex mutations but they have been mostly derived from wild caught birds imported from Asia. Unlike Australia there has been little hybridizing to derive colours.".... If birds can mutate colours in the wild, why do we, in Australia, need to cross with other breeds to get colour mutation?
Tasha
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Post by avinet on Mar 4, 2008 9:05:46 GMT 10
Does the crossing of birds to get different colour mutations apply to all birds? It seems so by the look of it. I had often wondered how the colour mutations began in the first place. Yes all birds can have colur mutations, for instance we had a cinnamon crow living in our street for much of last year. And once a mutation occurs it can be established by careful breeding. Variations in colour of feathers is caused by small variations in the bird's DNA that controls feather colour. What causes the colour in the first place is a very complex subject I don't want to get into here, partly because I only partly understand it myself. However to give a simple example, a green feather does not contain any green pigment. Instead it contains a yellow pigment as well as blue colours which when light passes through the feather results by interference in a green colour. A lutino, or yellow Alex (or anyother parrot) therefore occurs when a chance mutation causes the blue element of the feather to not be produced, leaving only the yellow pigment to colour the feather. Similarly if a chance mutation removes the ability of the bird to produce the yellow pigment then a blue bird will result. These mutations that affect the colour of the feather occur at random and only very rarely. Once it occurs then how it is inherited by it's offspring follows a variety of genetic inheritance laws. Using budgies as an example, occasionally in the wild a blue budgie will occur in a flock. That bird immediately faces two problems in establishing it's colour for future generations. Firstly it stands out as different from the rest of the flock and so becomes an easy target for hawks etc. Secondly if it avoids becoming a meal its' likely mate is going to be a green bird, which is a dominant colour and all offspring are going to be green. So the gene will die out and the "greenness" of the flock will be preserved. These mutations do occur very rarely - and with the thousands of birds breeding in the wild it is far more likely to occur than in a limited captive population. The trappers who see such a bird will target it since they know it is of a higher value and it is likely to pass into aviculture where by careful breeding the mutation can be established. Statistically these colur mutations have as much chance of occuring in an aviary environmet as in the wild, but there are many more birds breeding in the wild than in captivity. In those species bred in large numbers such as budgies, tiels, peachfaces and ringnecks there are new colours turning up in captive breeding but in those species bred in small numbers it is more likely that the colour first came from the wild. Europe allowed the import of wild caught birds up until 2006, when the bird flu scare made the EU stop wild imports. The USA stopped wild imports in 1992, and Australia stopped all imports back around 1950. So these wild caught colours were never imported into Australia, and most ended up in Europe. Even ifthey were imported back 60 years ago breeding techinques back then meant they died out. With Alexes, breeders have tried to get the colours in by crossing with ringnecks, while other species have had their colur mutations smuggled into Australia. For instance the pearl and lutino cockatiel were first bred in the USA and smuggled into Australia. Similarly the blue Quaker was smuggled in. All blue quakers in Australia are derived from 6 smuggled birds - two hens and four cocks. Even the Budgie has had many of the colours smuggled in. Hope this is of help - colour mutations is a fascinating but complex field I only skim the surface of - anyone interested needs to buy Terry Martin's book on colour mutations from the Australian Birdkeeper. cheers, Mike |
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Post by courtzrocks on Mar 4, 2008 10:35:00 GMT 10
Yeah pauline's look really alex like, big beak and everything. If Matches is female i would like to get a green male that is part lutino to breed with, that would be cool. And vice versa if male would like a green part lutino female.
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Post by avinet on Mar 4, 2008 12:18:43 GMT 10
Yeah pauline's look really alex like, big beak and everything. If Matches is female i would like to get a green male that is part lutino to breed with, that would be cool. And vice versa if male would like a green part lutino female. Lutino is a sex linked mutation. That means that a male can be split to lutino but a female cannot be split lutino - if she is carrying a lutino gene then her colour will be lutino and not green. With Matches if she is a girl. as looks likely. this measn that a male split lutino should give you 1 in 4 babieas that are lutino and they will always be a daughter. If Matches turns out to be a male then a lutino hen would mean that all the babies would be green, both sons and daughters, and the males would be split to lutino. You would not be able to buy a hen split to lutino because they don't exist, a hen is either a plain green bird or a visual lutino. I'm not really sure what the current pricing is for lutino Alexes, I think a good quality lutino hen that is 75% Alex would be around $1000. I've seen even poor quality birds at that sort of price. A cock split lutino of good quality may be around $800 upwards depending on the quality and percentage of Alex in it's genes. cheers, Mike |
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Post by courtzrocks on Mar 4, 2008 12:31:17 GMT 10
Cool thanks for the heads up..well im hoping matches is a female then LOL. Its either a split male (i dont want a full lutino cos i like the greenies too) or a very (depending on what matches is) large male/female alex is what i would like for matches.
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 4, 2008 16:33:30 GMT 10
wow Mike you really do know your stuff. The guy I got Gunny from also told me about the coloured alex's and said all those in Aussie are IRN crossed but those overseas are pure Alex mostly. He didn't explain it like you did though. He sent me a link to mutations and man there are some different colours but quite a few looked ringnecky to me.
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Post by pinkdevil on Mar 4, 2008 17:43:50 GMT 10
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 4, 2008 18:13:50 GMT 10
LMAO........the :Tasha Terms" of explanation ....... love it. ;D
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Post by courtzrocks on Mar 5, 2008 9:30:44 GMT 10
Did you know there were yellow ekkies? The lady who weaned Matches had a picture of a yellow ekkie she sold once...it was hatched green and then after it's first moult turned yellow!! Pretty cool. The guy she sold it too brings it back for her too see every now and again and some other guy bought this guy a female and an aviary to breed it!! Awesome!
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 5, 2008 16:54:35 GMT 10
yes there are blue ekkies too that are a natural mutation. I am guessing the yellow ekkie was a male ........der........ obviously if it was green first. lol You probably could get red ones and orange ones (seeing as these are the colours in there feathers depending on whether they are male or female) and lutino ones too.....
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Post by courtzrocks on Mar 6, 2008 9:09:34 GMT 10
The blues are really pretty too. I have seen females with yellow "freckles"...think it had something to do with certain vitamins?
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Post by vankarhi on Mar 6, 2008 16:30:39 GMT 10
yes some of the mis colourations are due to vitamin deficencies or too much of and usually once that is rectified then they are usually back to normal after their next moult ....... or two. ;D
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Thanks Mike 
