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Post by courtzrocks on Apr 18, 2008 16:30:27 GMT 10
Yes if i get matches out before she is ready she gets angry so i just leave her to cool off...eventually you will read what they're doing whether they are testing you or excited or just need some space. I really do hope you think about the clipping. My alexandrine is flighted but if she wasnt tame i would have had no problem trimming them to train her and for her safety. It doesnt hurt them and it isnt permanent. My conure is happy running around, if she wants to go somewhere she will usually go to the edge and run up and down until i walk over and transfer her to where she wants to go. She is very sweet but if i hadnt clipped her she definately would still be a wild child. I'm just enjoying my time with her clipped and handling her as much as I can so when her wings grow back she will be used to being handled. If you need any help on how to clip just ask and there are diagrams we can show you. Clipping is a personal choice but it is a much better option than taping as once the wings grow back, they will have been exercising them enough to be able to fly safely and properly. Keep us updated on your progress...and does he have a name?
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Post by vankarhi on Apr 18, 2008 17:27:46 GMT 10
do you have any pics too. We love pics ;D
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Post by 100birds on Apr 18, 2008 17:35:06 GMT 10
thanks guys I know your helping. Im sure its a boy (no dna test yet) the breeder is a very respected large parrot breeder here in newcastle nsw he is a great breeder and he believes its a boy...well i can see a black line forming under his chin and his head is rather large. This afternoon he walked out of his cage and he came out ok, and after a while i placed my hand on the cage he just jumped on and up on my shoulder. I just ignored him for a while and he was ok, i think he like a little adventure first then he will come up to u when he is ready. They are fantastic birds and i thank you guys for this support. I also own a rainbow lori, i breed Quarrion s and starting on ring necks. I just really enjoy birds. I breed chickens also and have been for ten years showing them. thanks again guys for the tips.  |
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Post by farseeker on Apr 18, 2008 17:38:16 GMT 10
I'd have to say, the taping does sound to me like it would bother the bird. It's not very common practice as far as I'm aware, and that's probably for a good reason. Not saying you don't have the best of intentions, but you may have been given some questionable advice. Of my birds, all of them were clipped at some point. Anath has alternated between being flighted and clipped depending on the circumstances. Right now we're letting her grow her wings back in as she has a cage with plenty of room and a boyfriend.  Jedi had a very harsh clip which I did not agree with - she was in the process of growing in wing feathers when she was stolen. She had perhaps two on each side. I was probably going to re-clip her with a much softer clip simply because she had been clipped too early and didn't really know how to fly and wasn't learning as fast as her wings were growing in, if that makes sense. Once that clip grew in again I was going to re-evaluate her and my situation. Trouble is clipped at the moment, and he will probably keep a soft clip as I doubt my parents would be too happy about a free-flighted bird his size. My lorikeet, Squee, never had wing feathers. In fact, he couldn't grow them but was the only one who found not being able to fly distressing. If I had had a choice with him he would have been flighted simply because it upset him that he could not. If you do decide to clip, I would recommend a soft clip on both wings - ideally your bird should be able to glide gently to the ground and not be able to gain too much height. Both wings should be done as only doing one causes problems with balance which can lead to injury. |
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Post by 100birds on Apr 18, 2008 17:40:21 GMT 10
farseeker the breeder does not give me questionable advice on parrots.
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Post by 100birds on Apr 18, 2008 17:46:36 GMT 10
like i said in previous posts the tape was only until the bird became easier to handle. There is alot of color in bird wings why chop that off. Im from the school of thought where i wont cut the wing so sorry guys. thanks for the tips.
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Post by farseeker on Apr 18, 2008 20:24:43 GMT 10
With all due respect, you came here asking for advice, and the majority have questioned taping as being the best method. I've had a look around for more information on it and the only two things I can find on it people also seem to be a bit leery of the practice. I am not trying to say that your breeder was bad or that you're making a bad decision in keeping him flighted, I'm simply saying that I think the taping of the wing itself could cause problems. I've met quite a few people (qualified avian vets, the 'bird specialists' in pet stores and a couple of breeders) who had practices that I disagree with and that are considered outdated. Does that make them bad at what they do? No, it just means that they have a preferred method and may not have been introduced to others that I myself prefer.
My biggest concern with the taping is whether your alex is chewing at it or not - if they are, are you sure that the adhesive on the tape is not poisonous to them? I'd also be a little worried about it encouraging feather mutilation through habit. Also, how exactly is it taped? Are the flight feathers taped together at the end of the wing or is the entire wing taped to the body?
Perhaps if you don't wish to clip Arthur's wings you could try taming him while he's flighted? I'd imagine it would take a bit more work, but perhaps taking him somewhere like the bathroom where you'd be the only available perch would encourage him to step up to you, especially if he's given lots of treats and praise.
If you're interested in having free-flighted birds, you might want to have a look around for some of Shanlung's stories about his African Grey. They're an inspiration to read and I think you might enjoy them.
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Minna
Addicted Member
Peekaboo!
Posts: 128
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Post by Minna on Apr 18, 2008 22:50:32 GMT 10
Akira was fully flighted for about half her life without any problems arising from it; I understand and sympathise completely with wanting to keep your bird flighted -but I would suggest taping may be contributing to the behaviour.
When a bird is clipped, it's clipped until the feathers grow back in with the next moult. When he's taped, he's only disabled while you've got him out -he's insecure about balance and safety, because it's only some of the time so he doesn't entirely figure out how to function with it. This may well be why he's difficult to handle -he's put off-balance by being handicapped, and associating that fear with you. :/
If you've got him permanently taped, rather than just while he's out, you're risking serious damage to him. Having his wing fixed means that he's getting no exercise of it at all, and the muscles can atrophy surprisingly quickly. While I understand it's a temporary measure, taming a bird takes time -and from the sound of his behaviour at the moment, it's not just going to be a day or two. Please understand I'm not saying this to criticise you or your breeder, but instead because that I'm sure that the best interests of your bird is what you're most concerned with.
I've had a lot of success with small, quiet areas, such as the bathroom, and just sitting down and talking quietly to the bird for a while every day. If he's on the floor and you're sitting down, you're not big enough to be terrifying, but you're still a bit higher and so a good perch. And if you're not moving very much and just talking quietly, you're non-threatening. And being in a small room also makes it much easier to handle a flighted bird.
So, yeah. My suggestion would be a few sessions without the tape, in a small, quiet room, some treats and just talking to him a little bit. Of course, my birds have always been on a pellet-based diet, so they're willing to go a bit more out of their way for a bit of sunflower.
A two month old bird won't have gone through its first major moult, so clipping would only be temporary. I'm not saying this to try to convince you to do something if you're dead-set against it -I'm personally not against a well done wing clip, but feel it's better to have a bird fully flighted than clipped badly -but in trying to help the taming process, you may be effectively shooting yourself in the foot. You may feel that clipping birds is cruel -there are many who agree with you -but when it comes right down to it, how is it any more or less cruel than keeping them caged in a human house to begin with?
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Post by just4birds on Apr 18, 2008 23:03:26 GMT 10
i cant be bothered reading all the posts ... but TAPPING is OLD FASHION ! ! ! ! ! ! ! I i'll be honest i've seen birds with tapped wings and it looks blooody horrible ... i also not a big believer in taming birds down ... if they arent handled much as babies ... they wont wanna be ... ya may as well stick it in an aviary .. specially alex's and ring necks ... I'm a big one for clipping i dont care who thinks its cruel or whatever ... wait until the day your bird gets out into the wild ... and magpies and crows etc start attacking or it cant find any food ro water ... and then see whats cruel ... Anyway ... if ya gonna bother to try and tame it down .. i'd let it settle into its new home for a week or so first ... find out what its favourite food is ... take that out of its diet and use that as the reward for being food ... You then should use that reward in your hand as a target ... and start for the basic STEP UP and DOWN before anything else .. Good Luck *EDIT* No offence to those who choose to leave there birds fully flight ... just my personal choose to clip all my birds  |
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Post by 100birds on Apr 19, 2008 18:00:54 GMT 10
im over this site i wont be back forums are for people with no life and just want to argue i wont be back on here again
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Post by robert on Apr 19, 2008 18:09:59 GMT 10
The last response is so sad. from Robert and Hope
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Post by just4birds on Apr 19, 2008 18:19:51 GMT 10
Ohh well each to there own i say ... if they dont wanna listen to what other people have to say about what they are asking ... then its best not to ask at all ... |
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Post by megzly on Apr 19, 2008 20:02:29 GMT 10
Bummer hey  It is sad when people do things like that, i know rescue birds that have broken wings take so long to rehabilitate, some never learn to use their wings again and never gain their right to flying (wild birds im talking about) i have no problem with clipping i see it as an effective tool in taming down a bird or so you can take them out and about with you- but i guess until people get the right info on whats more effective things like this will continue to happen. even the best bird breeder can use outdated and not so ethical measures of taming birds. |
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Post by vankarhi on Apr 20, 2008 18:16:53 GMT 10
im over this site i wont be back forums are for people with no life and just want to argue i wont be back on here again Well I am shocked. All we were trying to do was give advise. I do not think anyone here was picking on anyone......just in case that is what anyone thought. 100birds......I am so sorry you feel like this. But fortuneatly I do have a life.....yes it might surprise many people here ;D ;D I work, I have 6 children and I train dogs in obedience and agility and I compete and judge also (that is why I have been away this weekend as I was competing and judging away from home). But I also have a passion for birds too. Like everyone here all we were trying to do was give you advise ......... we were not picking on you. I hope you are successful with your bird ....... I am sure you will be and I hope he gives you many many years of pleasure as a companion. But you were asking for advise.......and advise is all that was offered here ....... I did not see any arguements.....just people trying to help you with your bird. |
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Post by courtzrocks on Apr 21, 2008 12:21:18 GMT 10
I think thats funny how he goes that its a boy cos it has a big head and a slight ring...that's exactly how matches was until she was DNA'd. Her head only started rounding out at about 3 months and she has always had a bit of a ring.
OMG I AM SO SCARED FOR THAT BIRD!!! Wing tapping just sickens me....I tried to stay civil about it but it just made me so angry that someone would do this to a bird. That breeder really has to get some new info for his customers. Really, and if your buying a bird from a breeder wouldnt you have read up on what to do? Clipping is so much more humane than tapping and I dont see how anyone can think it isnt. Imagine if someone was trying to pick you up but you couldnt move your arms to balance...grrrr.....
ANd as far as there is alot of colour in the wings...ya not chopping the WHOLE WING!! Only a few feathers. That bird is just going to go wild when he is untaped because he will be able to get away and be scared to be taped.
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Post by farseeker on Apr 21, 2008 13:31:14 GMT 10
I know, Courtz. It's scary to think of what will happen to that bird - I can see if becoming more aggressive through fear and then being sold on or put down. =/ I can understand wanting to stick to your own methods but when so many people are pointing out problems with it the sensible thing to me would be to reconsider how you are going about things. There were a few people who gave suggestions on how to tame the bird without clipping or taping, but apparently those were ignored. It's so sad what can happen to pet birds if they end up with ignorant people. There's at least a very basic level of knowledge in our society when it comes to cats and dogs, but with birds, rodents and fish most are so horribly under-informed. If I ever end up breeding there's going to be long interrogations before any of my babies are sold to strangers.  |
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Post by just4birds on Apr 21, 2008 13:51:08 GMT 10
I watched a dvd i got from being a member of Bird Tricks .... they were reviewing good and bad pet/bird shops in the U.S And the good bird shop they visited .... have all there baby birds behind glass ... and they have an adoption step with buying any new bird from them ... The lady even said on the dvd ... that no one will go into her shop and leave with a new bird on the first day ... the adoption setup she has in places ... is over a few weeks where the person fills in the adoption papers ... can visit the bird as much as they like until its ready to go home ... and in that time they also teach the person how to handle the bird and good diet etc ... As much as it seems over the top ... i think it really would ween out the serious bird owner from people just wanting a quick pet ... back to taping wings ... i have seen in a bird shop in sydney a blue and gold macaw with tapped wings ... and like i said in my first post ... it looked blooody horrible ... but some people seem to think its better then clipping ... all i have to say to those people is ... GET WITH THE TIMES ! ! ! ! Thanks for reading |
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Post by courtzrocks on Apr 21, 2008 16:10:45 GMT 10
Hey just4birds...what exactly do they do for taping?? What tape do they use and how is it put on? it sounds shocking to me i just am not sure if it is as bad as i am imagining.
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Post by avinet on Apr 21, 2008 17:29:17 GMT 10
The examples of wing taping I have seen involved putting tape around several flight feathers to bunch them up together and hence make them useless for flying. It didn't involve taping the wing to the body. Vetwrap can be used, which doesn't stick to the feathers, just to itself.
The problem is that the feather follicles are being twisted since most of the feathers are being forced into an unnatural angle coming out of the skin. This can result in damage, possibly permanently, to the feather follicle if the wing is taped for any length of time.
I seem to remember being told it is illegal to clip birds' wings in Victoria under some animal welfare legislation and hence taping is used there. I've always meant to try and find out if that's true - anyone here from Victoria who can comment?
cheers,
Mike
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Post by farseeker on Apr 21, 2008 19:37:36 GMT 10
Yeah I assumed that was how it was done. I've seen one bird that had it's wings taped, and the guy had used duct tape though. It had been picking at it and waving the wing around so he'd actually taped the wing to the body. @_@ Made me sick.
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