Naughty Baby Eclectus - HELP!!

[zisforzoe]

We recently bought a young 4 month old male Eclectus parrot (Waldo) who had been handraised by a breeder but for a few weeks had been put into a room with other birds, so when we brought it back home it was not really tame at all.

The first few times getting it out of the cage was a struggle, he would flap around and really hurt himself before we could hold him, and then he was never comfortable. In the week that we've had Waldo we've handled him for about 5-6 hours a day with breaks between, and he's gotten progressively better after midday where he's now desperate to come out and sit with people, to be stroked and to just cuddle. He has such a beautiful personality, Waldo is such a sweetheart, and he's currently learning to talk - he is speaking but it's not exactly clear yet.

However in the mornings he is almost like a totally different bird! He's aggressive and bites, squawks and shrieks at the top of his lungs and will not sit still for two seconds. Because the back wall of our house is all glass, I'm sure he's flown into it about 18 times now. I think that Waldo gets confused because there are so many lorikeets outside every morning, but he won't sit still AT ALL in any other room except that one. In the morning he's completely unmanageable and if I'm not covering his face and pressing him down (which is not only stressful for him, but completely impractical) he's frantically climbing up onto my head and my knees to fly into the glass. During the mornings he also throws all of his food onto the floor instead of eating it, and when i hand feed his fruit and veggies to him he pulls them out of my hand and throws them.

He's not learning and I don't know what I can do, I'd really appreciate advice!
Thanks in advance.



^^ Beautiful Waldo.

[robert]

Can anyone help this new member,please. from Robert and Precious

[meandem]

Geez, you have your hands full. I'm no expert, but there are lots of people on this site who will be willing to share the valued information with you. I have found everyone to be so helpful when it comes to problems. My biggest advice is time and patience. And I would probably be hanging something up at the window for a while to stop the collision course you keep having.

[Jane]

Hi and

I am not one of our Eclectus parrots experts, but we have a few members with them who will be along later
My intitial thoughts would be curtains on that glass before Waldo breaks his neck or does permanent damage.
There are many differing opinions on clipping but you may have to consider this at least until Waldo settles down as it may prevent he harming himself. If you search this forum for 'clipping' you'll read some discussion and advice on the best way to clip.
I'm sure someone with more companion parrot experiance than me will be able to advise a morning routine for you

[just4birds]

Great advice there Jane ....

I'm no pro neither but i own 4 .... 3 adopoted ... and 1 i hand raised myself ... 2 things about birds .. and eckies specially ...

1. a bird should never be made to do anything ... with the right training a bird will be willing to step up for you ... etc ...

2. eckies are alot like little kids .... the more freedom you give them .. the more they will put on a turn to get that freedom ...

My suggestion is to put him in a smaller cage ... and "a naughty room" away from everyone where he gets attention .. and just leave him there until he settles down then bring him back out ...

but its very strange that he is acting crazzy this morning ... is there wild birds annoying him ... even a hawk in the area .... I would never have my bird near a glass window or door ... like Jane said one mighty fly into something like that and they can kill themselves or worse hurt there back and you'll end up with a bird that cant walk or a funny neck .. specially being a bigger heavier bird ..

Also its probably best to get some of Barbara Heidenreich's dvds and books ... they can be bought from www.parrotrescuecentre.com ...

Also start working on a treat/reward that he really likes ... and use that for training only ... all mine will do anything for sunflower seeds as none of my eckies get seed in there normal diet ..

there is a great eckie forum and website with lots of info on it .. www.eclectusparrots.net

and i guess one last thing ... if he is being really naughty ... he shouldnt be out of his cage ... and if he wont settle in his cage ... cover him back up until he has ...

Hope that helps a tad

*Lisa*

[summit]

Routine, routine, routine. Find a time that suites you that you can make every day. That should be "play time"

Eclectus are very intelligent birds, this doesn't always mean they will do what you want them to quickly, but be more likely to try to push the boundaries. Be firm with him as in do not have grey areas as to what he can and can't do. The "rules" have to be black and white. When he isn't doing as you wish after a few attempts, then it's bed time. As mentioned before either in a separate room or covered with a sheet or towel.

Again, as mentioned before I'd cover the window, even if it is with a bed sheet for the short term until he learns not to aim at it.

The food throwing is a tantrum and he should grow out of it in time. For now I would put less food in these bowls so it is harder to throw it. Just keep an eye on it so he doesn't go hungry.

I recommend hand training a young bird to start. This means only allow him on your hand. Make sure your hand is the highest part of your arm. (elbow lower than your hand) When he attempts to walk off your hand a slight, sudden jerk down wards with a clear "NO" will teach him not to wonder. At first he won't like the discipline, but if you don't get on top of it now you will have problems in the future.

Just remember, treats for good behavior, immediately. Bed or "time out" for repeated bad behavior.

[just4birds]

Hmmm i dont believe in that kinda of training where you make a sudden movement so that they doesnt walk of your hand ...

You should be able to pick a treat ... and hold one hand in front of the bird ... and the treat infront of the bird ... sooo when the bird wants to reach the treat he'll step onto your hand to get it ...

I have just been to a convention where Barbara Heidenreich spoke ... and her training is all positive reinforcement ... and she believes all birds should do things because they want to (ie: for the treat) no bird should be made to do anything (ie: step up)

If you really want to work and train your bird .. get her dvds ... and her books

and be very careful with your punishment .... a quote from her "parrot problem solver" book is

"In general, punishment is not the best choice for modifying a parrot's unwanted behaviour"

If you would like to know more from her book .. just let me know ... and i'll type some up

There is some youtube stuff of Barabara's work ..




*Lisa*

[summit]

Lisa I do totally agree with what you are saying. All I meant was there are times when the bird does not "want" to be trained, and that is the time to put them back into their cage.

The sudden movement thing is slight, maybe a centimeter, if that. It is just enough to get the birds attention.

Everyone has their own ideas on the best way to train any animal or bird. I saw Dr Harry Cooper use the covered cage method and have to admit, it works. In the birds mentality the "naughty" behaviour becomes associated with a boring cage, so they learn to stop doing the bad behaviour to avoid the "cover up".

[just4birds]

Yeahhh i dont mind the covering the cage method .... i have used that myself ... and as long as people understand the training idea you are trying to get across it probably wont be all that bad ...

I have changed alot of my views on training after listening to Barbara in person .... even though i have watched her dvds heaps of times and read her books ... from listening to her ... has made me realise that "yes birds need to learn to do things by themselves ... to then enjoy the attention or the reward ... they do things because they wanna get whatever comes after doing what there owner wants them to do ...

And i guess i'm a big fan of her work ... as one of my adopted eckies use to be a biter ... and now with a bit of basic training i can get him to step up .. and wave etc .. and during all those little training sessions ... ya would never guess he use to be a biter/pincher ...

Soo people i guess need to realise .. you get out of a bird what you put into it

[vankarhi]

Well what Lisa and Chris have said is great advise.

You have only had your baby for such a short time and his throwing of his food can be a tantrum but ekkies are also extremely messy eaters too. Skye and Gunny both toss food out of their dish to get to the more "delicious" or "favourite" food bits. I was forever cleaning the walls and floor around Skye's cage when she was inside.

Cover the window that Waldo keeps flying into.......he will do himself a serious injury otherwise.

I also have to wonder if your Waldo was handraised properly........but even so, I know that Skye was and she bit me for the first couple of attempts to get her out of the cage but once she got used to me and realised I wasn't going to hurt her, she was fine. She actually was the best pet bird I have ever owned.......until she turned 2 and became all hormonal.......but that is another story.

[vankarhi]

oh and is that a pic of your Waldo??? If so he has very strange feather colouring even for a young bird.

[Karen]

Gosh, Waldo sounds just like me in the mornings!

[zisforzoe]

Wow, thankyou everyone for all the advice!

The thing that concerns me is he's never happy (in the mornings) unless he's in his cage and he never wants to come out in the morning, he almost drew blood this morning when he bit me! So when he flies (and yes he is clipped but he flies horizontal/down which still gets him to the glass wall, which we are planning to put rows of tape on all of them until he learns) and scratches and panics, what I normally would do would be to put Waldo in his cage. I think it's exactly what he wants!

However at night he's desperate to come out of the cage and he squawks for attention and when he's out and being stroked and kissed he shuts his eyes and grinds his beak, he's always very happy.

And another concern is that if we set up a routine where in the morning he isn't handled as much as the afternoons because he's impossible in the mornings, will he never be comfortable with people in the morning? I really hope that doesn't happen.

The tossing of the food is definitely tantrum then, I've seen the neighbour's eclectus do this when he's upset and this seems to be what Waldo is doing. I'm going to try cutting the fruit and vegg into smaller pieces now.

But the major issue is that Waldo is HAPPY when he's put back in the cage, and I don't ever want to resort to yelling at him or shaking him or anything; he'll hate me forever!

Yes that's a picture I took about 5 days ago and there seems to be a few feathers all over his body that are reddy/brown. I'm wondering if this is a colour mutation?

Anyway, thanks so much, everyone.
Zoë.

[farseeker]

Hey here Zoe.

I've not owned an ekkie myself so I can't give you any specific advice, but I do have a couple of thoughts that may or may not help you. XD

First, I'm wondering if perhaps the routine at his breeder's place was different to yours - perhaps he was fed in the mornings and left alone until the afternoon, at which point he was taken out and had time spent with him. All of my birds have had cranky periods where their routine has had to be changed, which has included aggressiveness and tossing of food to annoy me. So maybe this is what is going on here. Of course, this is just speculation.

Secondly, I don't believe that you should simply leave him to his own devices in the morning completely, but perhaps taking things a little slower might work better for you and Waldo. Maybe try just spending some time just near him in the mornings, talking to him but not taking him out of the cage. Try eating breakfast next to the cage and giving him some fruit and vegies then - there's a theory that I read a while back working off the basis that birds are flock animals, so if you act more like you're a part of the flock (having them near you when you sleep, eating together, participating in some of their 'noisy' times) they are more likely to calm down and develop trust and a bond with you quicker. This worked well with Squee, my lorikeet who went through an awful period where he didn't trust people at all for months.

Keep the glass covered if possible, or take him into a room where he can't fly into it in the mornings. If he's freaking out or having a temper tantrum take him into a room like the toilet (if the lid is down, don't want him taking a bath!) or bathroom with any mirrors covered. If you can, take in some of his favourite food and treats and reward him when he looks at you, moves near you or interacts with you - hopefully he'll start thinking that spending time with you in the mornings is a good thing then.

Lastly, if for some reason he's acting afraid during this time, don't push the point too much - taking them out of their comfort zone a little isn't a bad thing, but if he's very scared you won't make any progress. It's possible that shadows of the birds outside or something else that he sees in the morning is scaring him.

[vankarhi]

Have you taken him to a vet for a checkup. Those coloured feathers are not normal. They might come out during his first molt, but he should be irridescent green.......sort of emerald green. Look at the pic of Gunny in my sig. I know that Gunny is an adult but his colouring is what your boy should be. His beak having black on it still proves he is a baby, but that yellow and redish brown in his feathers is not normal. It could be a mutation........but I would be taking him just for a check up if it were me.

[just4birds]

I'm thinking if he is cranky in the mornings .... maybe he isnt getting enough sleep ... or maybe he is extra hungry of a morning ...

My baby omo is around 7 months ... and i cant really say he is every cranky of a morning .... but normally really hungry ...

His photo looks to me ... as tho he is starting his first big moult .... omo looks crappy right now as well ... and depending on there hand raised environment .. will depend how good there feathers will be at first ...

I would also say .. eckies shouldnt have free range ... to do as they please from sun up to sun down ... they can end up very naughty ... and uncontrolable .. there is nothing wrong with a bird being left in a cage for a period of time as long as he has good food / water and lots of toys to play with ...

My lot only get to come out between 1 to 3 hours a day ... and this is because the longer they are out ... the naughtier they get ...

and once again i suggest some dvds or youtube on basic training ... all birds should know to step up whether its on your hand or on a perch ...

He will take awhile to settle into his new home ... so slow and steady will win the race ... and be aware eckies need a good diet ... which shouldnt have alot if any seed in it ...

Keep us posted on how things are going

*Lisa*

[zisforzoe]

This morning I took Waldo into a slightly darker room with one window covered by blinds, however he was still quite panicky. He was still desperate to get on my head and we haven't been able to turn on the fire since we had him because the first time we took him into this room he flew into the fireplace (LUCKY IT WAS OFF!). But after about 20 minutes of him freaking out, I stroked his head and pressed my palm against his beak gently shielding his eyes and he calmed down and almost went to sleep for the hour I had him out. Hopefully this is progress, I'll try to not have him out so much in the back room with the glass walls until he starts to become more comfortable in the home.

Perhaps that photo I took wasn't the best, I didn't use flash and the top of his wing looks brown/orange. Waldo is definitely a bold green but there are perhaps 20 small feathers all over his body that are brown/red. In a guidebook I was reading it looked very much like some of the other colour mutated birds shown which were similar to a pearl cockatiel. However Waldo is not quite as "spotty" as these Eclectus parrots.

Waldo has black bands on his feathers on his wings which I read were symptoms of stress when his feathers were developing, but those will disappear in time, won't they?

I will try one morning to take him into a quiet room and train him with food, at the moment we've simply been focusing on him getting out of the cage and sitting still, and then hopefully he will be allowed more freedom of movement when he's sitting with us in the future.

Lisa, generally we leave a bowl of seed and water in the cage and they are both changed and cleaned each morning, and with the fruit and veggies we feed him first thing in the morning when we change the seed and water and then if he's eaten all his veggies we give new different foods to him in the afternoon. I think for some strange reason he prefers seed to fruits?? Waldo seems to be very excited when seed is put in the cage and he normally goes for the fruit and veg later. Is this a bad habit?

Sorry for all the questions, but everyone is so helpful and we are only used to our 6 extremely friendly and tame cockatiels and budgie!
Zoe.

[just4birds]

Yeahhh its hard to say ... why he is so freaked out .... but yeah maybe try putting him to bed somewhere quiet .. and then uncovering him in there and feeding him .. then see after that how he is in other rooms etc ...

maybe he can hear something that us humans cant ... or maybe its a light he doesnt like or something ... i know this morning when i got my sun conures out ... there is a spider living on my ceiling .... and my girl sun conure spoited it ... and she just sat like a stuffed bird for about 15 minutes before she decided it would be ok to move again

With the training just start slow .. with something he really likes .. i'm gonna say if you are feeding him seed .. use sunflower seeds and then not give him seed at any other point ... you can just start out by showing him the sunflower seeds in your hand .. and giving him some ... as long as he is just looking interested ... once he works out you have something yummy in your hand he should follow that hand anywhere

Seed ... i'm gonna have to say this is just me speaking .. but i'm veryyyyy anti seed in cages/diet for eckies .. others may or may not agree ... but for me ... i dont have seed in any of my eckies cages .. i only use sun flower seeds for training and that is all ....

I cook for my eckies ... i either do it daily or bulk and freeeze it ... I cook what most of us call a veggie mush ... where you can either boil/steam lots of veggies and you can either leave them chunky or mash them up .... and add a cooked soup mix, brown rice and veggie pasta to it ... makes a great bit mushhy meal ... then i just break it up into meal size and freeze it ..

I defrost 2 in my fridge daily and then just microwave warm for meal time .... which mine get this of a morning ...

Of an afternoon i give mine a cooked brown rice and defrosted frozen veggie mix .... where i just cook the brown rice ... and i use frozen veggies defrosted with boiling water ... and then i sprinkle some "living world" tropimix for premium mix over the top ... which has pellets, dried fruit and all kinds of things in it ..

I there is a diet section on www.eclectusparrots.net which is pretty much the same as what i do for my birds ...

my eckies dont get alot of fruit ... and thats slack on my part .. as i dont give it to them often enough so when i do ... they throw it all out and make a lovely mess with it .. cause they dont know what else to do with it ...

I'm happy to answer any of your questions ... i'm a HUGEEEEEEEE eclectus fan ... and would love for everyone to know what they need to live a healthy life ... and also for the owners to get great pleasure from owning one

*Lisa*

ps. a seed diet for eckies can lead to all kinds of health problems in the long term.

[Jane]

Zoe, ask as many questions as you need to Everyone is happy to help.

[vankarhi]

Zoe, your boy should be eating more fruit and veges than seed. There is nothing wrong with seed in the diet.......just not all the time. Mine do get seed, but mine absolutely mung out on their fresh stuff first......they just love their fruit and veges and cooked mixes I make for them.

I spoke to another ekkie person at a dog trial a week ago and she asked me about whether I give mine seed or pellets.......wont go down that discussion here again but I said mine get some seed and lots of fruit and veges. The lady told me she had spoken to a breeder who gives his seed and his get fruit every second day and he swears by it. Apparently his birds breed all the time and are doing very very well.

It goes against everything I have read about ekkies...........and I am not about to change what I do just yet.