|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 4, 2009 17:19:20 GMT 10
Hey everyone,
I posted on here a couple of days ago about prices and today after hours of research decided on and eckie. I found one today that i have put a deposit on and pick up tomorrow.
Its ok to yell at me for what I am about to say .... but
I found an adorable boy, he is just gorgeous (as they all are) but somehow i felt a connection with him. Now comes the yelling part ... he is 7 weeks old and the breeder tells me he is fully weaned. I know from my research that they arent weaned til much later and i shouldnt continue with the purchase. The guy almost had me talked into him being fully weaned and i did debate for some time. I guess the thing is ... i asked the guy what happened if i didnt buy him and he told me that he would still be up for sale. So, the little guy is going to be sold and is away from his parents, I figure that its best for the bird to go to someone who will take the time and effort to make sure he is ok - which is what i intend to do.
If any of you guys could give me advice, I would so much appreciate it. I pick him up tomorrow and want to have a stock of supplies for him when i do. I have read that cherios soaked in water is ok and i will offer fresh fruit and vegies to see how he goes.
please understand that i am not trying to hurt this little guy and given the choice i would have asked for him to be kept for longer - but that isnt an option - he is being sold and i would rather take him and look after him than see him go to someone who wont take the time.
Please help me help him and all advice is appreciated.
Kim
|
|
|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 4, 2009 17:33:40 GMT 10
Ok have rethought cherios - i would imagine they have artificial colouring - what about wheetbix?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jane on Mar 4, 2009 19:28:18 GMT 10
How about proper Hand Rearing formula specifically designed for the nutritional needs of a baby bird as opposed to breakfast cereal for humans.
I do have to say that a Ekkie chick will not even be halfway to weaned at 7 weeks.
If you still consider taking this on you need to do alot of reading on Ekkie nutrition.
I think honestly you should let this guy be sold to someone who knows how and what his nutritional needs are. In the nicest possible way I am trying to say that considering cheerios and weetbix means you are not prepared for raising a baby bird and it would be much kinder to let someone else take him on.
|
|
|
|
Post by vankarhi on Mar 4, 2009 19:46:05 GMT 10
At 7 weeks of age he should be on at least 3 feeds a day....... about 7am about 1 or 2pm and again about 7 or 8pm. He should be fine to eat chopped up apples/pears grapes, mango, etc etc. Mine are also eating the soft food I cook for them at this age quite well with grated carrots and silver beet or bok choy and some frozen (warmed) peas and corn. I also give mine dry cheerios (but the cheerios is purely just to get them started on eating.....they don't get it except as a treat once weaned)and some seed and some sprouts etc etc and nuts too. Basicially I put whatever I can think of that is good for them in their cage so they try to play and taste test and then get the hang of eating. My birds all love their food.
I do start mine on peas and corn at about 6 weeks and by 7 weeks he can by trying all of the above foods but truely he wont be fully weaned and that breeder is .......... well I can't say what I really think........but get some good quality baby bird formula (I have used roudy bush and kaytee exact) and feed him 3 times a day with all the other foods. By about 11 or 12 weeks of age he can go onto 2 feeds a day and a couple of weeks later if he looks like he is eating well then he can go onto 1 nightly feed per day for a couple of weeks until you are sue he is actually eating properly.
Trust me they don't even start to fly until they are about 9 weeks old and that is only because I am raising them and they are not in a nest box.
|
|
Karen
Addicted Member
Posts: 97
|
Post by Karen on Mar 4, 2009 20:50:55 GMT 10
Isn't it against the law to sell an unweaned bird? I know the RSPCA would be interested in this persons' breeding and bird selling practices. Anything that endangers an animals' life is something they would be concerned with. Kim, I would suggest you report his practices to the RSPCA and probably to the Environment Protection Agency. These people really disgust me, they put making money ahead of the welfare of their birds.  |
|
|
|
Post by avinet on Mar 4, 2009 21:54:38 GMT 10
If this bird is really only 7 weeks old you are truly taking a big risk and have a good chance of losing the bird. If you do go ahead with the bird I would suggest that you specify that the wings are not to be clipped and that you make sure it is flying skilfully before you agree to take it. And if you have to get it clipped I suggest making an appointment with an avian vet in your area (tell us where you live and we can advise you of a vet to go to) who can give the bird a health check and clip it's wings properly.
I do find that breeders that bring birds into us are often hazy about how old the bird is - often they seem to start counting how old it is from when they take it out of the nest to hand rear - or they tell me the cockatiel baby is only a couple of weeks old when it has a full set of flight feathers. Some breeders say a bird is younger than it really is to try to catch people who mistakenly think the younger the better. So it is possible it has been properly weaned and is older than 7 weeks.
As Tracey said, it wouldn't be flying until at least 9 weeks old and probably 10 weeks, so that is a test of how old it might be. Unless the breeder is able to demonstrate that it has good flying skills don't even contemplate it. An if it is flying properly, then at least find out all the details of what it is being fed currently so that you can continue with the same diet for the initial few days and gradually wean it onto the diet you want to feed it - and several here can advise you about that.
I'm not an Eclectus expert and they seem to be quite complex birds, as all the more intelligent birds are, but there are those on the forum who can help you if you do get the bird.
cheers,
Mike
|
|
|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 5, 2009 5:50:32 GMT 10
Thanks everyone for the advice. I have been up most of the night studying and worrying. Just to clarify as I dont think I explained myself properly - I will definitely have hand rearing formula for him, the weetbix and cheerios I suggested to help get him onto more "solid" food.
He actually has his wing clipped already and so perhaps he is older than the guy told me. He hasnt actually bred the bird, but got him when he was 2 weeks old to hand rear he said.
There is an avarian vet close to me where I take my budgies and I will make an appointment for him first thing today and then take it from there after she looks at him.
Thanks again
|
|
|
|
Post by avinet on Mar 5, 2009 8:51:47 GMT 10
He actually has his wing clipped already and so perhaps he is older than the guy told me. He hasnt actually bred the bird, but got him when he was 2 weeks old to hand rear he said. That is always a danger signal when buying birds - it tells me that this is someone who regards birds as purely something to make money out of rather than someone who has a love of birds. And that shows in the type of bird you get from them. We have a couple of people like that on the Sunshine Coast and they cause a lot of distress in people that have bought from them. Hopefully you will have a better experience Kim. The vet check is great - let us know the results, cheers, Mike |
|
Karen
Addicted Member
Posts: 97
|
Post by Karen on Mar 5, 2009 10:48:18 GMT 10
Hey Mike - and anyone with this experience - does a wing clip in a bird so young make them unable to fly? I mean, would it prevent them from flying when it grows back? Would a bird so young have learnt how to fly before being clipped? Would a cut in a really young bird scar it's confidence for life and cause any behavioural issues?
I am genuinely curious as I've not met anyone who has clipped a bird before it's learnt to fly and control its flight.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicvampyre on Mar 5, 2009 11:03:56 GMT 10
Bird Crazy - I had a budgie that never learnt to fly and it took alot of time to teach him later in life. I have heard this happening with other birds. I am sure that some birds it would not effect them as much but I know with my King he had his clipped when I got him not sure how young he was when he was first clipped but now as his feathers start to grow back he is a pretty poor flyer but getting better and better.
|
|
|
|
Post by just4birds on Mar 5, 2009 11:34:13 GMT 10
i havent read everything but i will i guess ... 7 weeks is JUST BLOODY INSANE ! ! ! !! where abouts are you  ?... if you want to buy that bird you should find someone who can hand raise and is willing to do it for you ... I had no experience ... and my first hand raising experience was with an eckie .. but i had a great avian vet who offer to help me ... which i visted once a week for a weight in etc .. You need to make sure the rearing mix is the right temperature and the right thickness .. you have to make sure its not to watery other wise if it goes down the birds neck wrong it will kill it in seconds ... (or so i've been told) ... with eckies that need to be watched carefully when learning to climb around their cage etc .. if they fall to the bottom to many times they can hurt their chestbone or even worse break it ...(this i have experienced myself) They are loud and whinging while weaning .. so my advice to you would be to get someone else to do it for you ... or get someone who knows what they are doing to help you. *Lisa* |
|
|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 5, 2009 16:49:49 GMT 10
Hi everyone,
Well I picked the little guy up this morning and had a couple of hours before the vet appointment so brought him home. I tried giving him food, which he didnt/couldnt eat - even a thin slice of apple he had a lot of trouble biting through.
Then off to the vet we went. Obviously he wasnt weaned as i was told he was and the vet also agreed that he shouldnt have had his wing clipped. He was also underweight. She told me that I could take him on, but any damage could already have been done to him in regard to his bones without being raised properly as the first 10 weeks are the most important.
Long story short - we both went back to the breeder with a rspca member - i got my money back and the rspca/vet got to take the little guy. They are going to check him/wean him and make sure he is all good and then i can buy him from the rspca if i chose (and the lady from the rspca was very happy as there had been some complaints with this guy but nothing that could ever stick).
So thank you everyone for the advice and assistance - as i said before this is a great forum.
Kim
|
|
|
|
Post by vankarhi on Mar 5, 2009 19:47:15 GMT 10
wow......is all I can say. Good on you for doing that. At least he might think twice about selling such a young bird as fully weaned when it obviously shouldn't have been. It makes you wonder how old it was when he started to wean him???
I hope he is ok (the bird that is) and I hope you can buy him....
|
|
|
|
Post by avinet on Mar 5, 2009 21:28:53 GMT 10
That's a great result Kim - probably the best that could have happened to the bird. Lets hope that he makes it OK with the RSPCA under vet supervision, and you can end up with him.
Do the RSPCA intend to take it further and prosecute? And given the RSPCA involvement it might be worth while giving us the name and location of the guy - perhaps in the members only area of the forum.
cheers,
Mike
|
|
Karen
Addicted Member
Posts: 97
|
Post by Karen on Mar 5, 2009 21:42:34 GMT 10
YES ! ! ! *punches fist in air* I told you the RSPCA would be interested ! ! ! Finally one of these so-n-so's have been caught ! ! ! YES ! ! ! *does happy dance and promptly falls over*  Darn Kim! You deserve Karma points for doing the right thing by that beautiful bird. Great big thumbs up from me! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by madaussie on Mar 5, 2009 21:51:51 GMT 10
Well done
j
|
|
|
|
Post by avinet on Mar 5, 2009 22:13:09 GMT 10
Hey Mike - and anyone with this experience - does a wing clip in a bird so young make them unable to fly? I mean, would it prevent them from flying when it grows back? Would a bird so young have learnt how to fly before being clipped? Would a cut in a really young bird scar it's confidence for life and cause any behavioural issues? I am genuinely curious as I've not met anyone who has clipped a bird before it's learnt to fly and control its flight. Basically the answer to almost all your questions is YES. Except that a bird clipped before fledging, will learn to fly, but it seems to have difficulty in learning how to land properly. It seems that some of the basic flying skills are instinctive and some are learnt, with parrots at least. Since we don't clip other groups of birds I can't comment on them. Parrots seem to instinctively know how to take off and fly, they need to learn how to turn and stop (land)! We see this all the time with babies taking their first flight - they usually just take off and fly in a straight line until they hit something, and it takes a few attempts before they realise they can turn and actually land somewhere intentionally rather than just crash land. Lorikeets are the worst, just kamikazi birds intitially. Cockatiels are often not much better. On the other hand Quakers and Sun Conures are much better organised. They will often make their first flight a short little hop, often landing OK, rather than a blind straight line flight. Cockatiels can be really cute when they finally work out how to land where they want to and will often fly from one of us to the other doing landings on the top of our heads, and looking mighty pleased with themselves in the process. I am absolutely sure flying improves the baby bird's balance and coordination, develops muscle tone, and is absolutely essential for proper physical and mental development. Even if it is subsequently clipped, it never seems to forget those basic skills. cheers, Mike |
|
|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 6, 2009 5:42:48 GMT 10
Thanks everyone, I feel a lot more contented and happy that he is in good hands right now and I know he is getting the best of care. I forgot to mention that I am allowed to go visit whenever I want to, so I will still be spending time with him most days which will be great for me and for our bonding. Fingers crossed he is going to come through with flying colours  As for naming him, I have absolutely no problem doing that as I think this guy should never be able to make money from his mistreatment - however, I hope you all understand that the rspca are investigating and have asked me to hold off publicly naming him - I did mention this forum to both the rspca member and the vet and they both said that it sounded like a great place for advice and support and they would check it out themselves. As soon as i get the all clear I will definitely provide all information i have on him. |
|
Karen
Addicted Member
Posts: 97
|
Post by Karen on Mar 6, 2009 10:50:55 GMT 10
Good on you Kim. I can see why they have asked you not to name him in case they do prosecute.
It's good you can visit the bird. I wish him all the best. Will you be purchasing him?
|
|
|
|
Post by kim6116 on Mar 6, 2009 13:05:00 GMT 10
Ok everyone i need some help/advice - you guys have been so great so far, i hope you can help me with this.
Please dont get me wrong with what i am about to say - i think the rspca is an absolutely great organistion, but they have to survive under laws - and unfortunately the law are that if the bird is given food and shelter there is no case. If its a dog or cat, then they have to be vet checked, but not to sell a bird. I have the support of my vet and apparently we need to go to the agricultural dept to get something done. I was wondering if its possible to perhaps start a petition on here for the safe and proper handling of birds that we could pass on - and if it is possible how do i start it and what do i need to do? I am sorry to be "carrying on" with this, but i feel very passionate about it as i know you all are and figure this is the best place to start. Should i draft a letter first that people could sign and what should the letter say? If there is something wrong with my little guy, i cant help him now (tests are still happening) but perhaps i could help save more birds (whatever breed) from the same fate and potential owners too. Please help me to help them
|
|
?... if you want to buy that bird you should find someone who can hand raise and is willing to do it for you ...
