Are mutations better than natural plumage.

[lyrebird]

In my opinion I think we should be free to explore and breed new mutations, but we should never shy away and always preserve the natural colour.

[carlsandclan]

I agree that natural colours should never be forgotten in the quest to form new mutations. Lets face it - mutations happen in nature, too. They just don't tend to survive out there for very long. Are mutations better than natural? Wouldn't say better - some are pretty, for sure.

[Robyn]

I think mutations do have their place & some are really very stunning. But lets not loose sight of the natural colour of a parrot now that is stunning. So no i don't think any mutation is better than the natural plumage. The day is going to come when you will not be able to find a cockatiel or budgie in an aviary that does not have some sort of mutation. Thank goodness there are still native ones in the wild.

[vankarhi]

I really like some of the colours of birds and they obviously are not their natural colours........but I still like to look at the "normal" coloured birds too. Like princess parrots....I think the natural green ones are so much prettier than the blue ones and I like blue birds.....I like purple/blue birds too lol

[kylie]

I have to agree with all of you as well.
I have bred cockatiels (still do) and to be 100% completely honest i do not have one single NORMAL specimen in my aviary I AM fascinated by genetics and love to see new mutations work...BUT as all who breed or have bred for mutations there is that underniable (spelling??) fact that mutations are never quite as hardy, well rounded, large as the normal "pure breds" of the species. This is a problem as even though mutations are interesting and people tend to get "involved" when they have bred a new mutation each new mutation further jeoprodises the integrity of the "pure" species blue print.

Im not overlt religious but Gob made things "just so" for a reason and who are we to go stuffing with that?? (im talking about myself here too as i am at fualt as well)

No, while mutations can be interesting and beautiful, in my opinion the "pure bred" is a creature unto its own and is all the more beautiful in its own right.

[madaussie]

Yes mutations are good to look at and while there is a market for them they are here to stay Like any thing supply and demand sumone will always fill the market for demand.
j

[Laraine]

I'm the same, none of my budgies, cockatiels, princesses and red rumps are "pures". The rest of them are "pures". We cannot ever lose our natural green budgies, green princesses and green red rumps, that would be a real shame. Unfortunately when selling babies, no one wants green budgies or grey cockatiels.

[kylie]

Thats exactly right Laraine and a great point.
I find that at the end of every single season i have a bunch of "normals" left over and not one mutation in sight. I have people who come to see the babies and want to see the parents...i cringe because i know when they see the "pretty snow white with silver flecks one next to the" my "normal" baby inside has just been dupped out of finding a home that day. And so for many people breeding birds that are hard to sell is too difficult....its easier to breed the colors or mutations that are more desirable in the market and are easy to sell.

It is very sad

[angelicvampyre]

I said yes but think I should have clicked unsure. In some species I much perfer the mutation such as in Tiels I really really do not like the "normal" colouring of tiels I would never own one or attempt to breed one but some of the Lut and Albino colouring in tiels I love. But having said that I LOVE the orginal green Budgie so I think my vote should have been an unsure.

[finchbreeder]

Some of my finches are normals and some are mutations, all of my quail are mutations, canaries some of each, doves all normal. We should always endevour to preserve the normals, but feel free to breed the mutations as well, the all have their place. Though to be honest some of the mutaions I have seen, I think WHY?
LML

[greyeagle1]

Mar 10, 2010 17:59:22 GMT 10 Robyn said:

I think mutations do have their place & some are really very stunning. But lets not loose sight of the natural colour of a parrot now that is stunning. So no i don't think any mutation is better than the natural plumage. The day is going to come when you will not be able to find a cockatiel or budgie in an aviary that does not have some sort of mutation. Thank goodness there are still native ones in the wild.

This seems to be true. In the pet shops in this country, they seem to want to sell more of the fancy color mutations rather than the grey cockatiels. But since they're more expensive, they don't sell as well as the greys. When I look closely at my grey female, I see all the beautiful shades of silver and grey in her feathers. On a more personal note, I'd rather stick with the natural grey cockatiels that resemble the first grey female I had that passed away several years ago...

[Greybeard]

There are some beautiful colour mutations out there however my concern with breeding for colour mutations is the health of the bird. Far too often they lose their vigor, become more susceptible to disease and have a reduced capacity for successful breeding. When breeding for these new colours we need to be mindful that we are removing vital genetic information from the birds' progeny which can and does cause health problems with the birds.

[greyeagle1]

Would you say then, that a cockatiel that retains it's natural gray color is healthier and has a longer life span?
My gray female is already 12 years old and I am kind of depressed knowing that they usually only live up to 15 years in captivity. Would a pelleted diet allow them a longer life span?

[avinet]

Jan 18, 2013 13:18:13 GMT 10 greyeagle1 said:

Would you say then, that a cockatiel that retains it's natural gray color is healthier and has a longer life span?
My gray female is already 12 years old and I am kind of depressed knowing that they usually only live up to 15 years in captivity. Would a pelleted diet allow them a longer life span?

To answer your question, I might give some details of my current pet cockatiels.

Lacey - platinum pearl - 20 years old and going strong
Taffy - cinnamon pearl - also 20 years but doe shave arthritis in her feet.
Gemma - grey pearl - about 16 years old and in good health but is a plucker
JJ - our only male currently, a pied - 18 years old and in disgustingly good health.

Some others no longer with us include Gwennie, a lutino, died at 21 years, her mate BB a grey normal - died at 19 years due to accident while in excellent health, and Jacki, grey pied - died of natural causes at 18 years.

So for cockatiels being a mutation as opposed to normal does not affect their life span. Good care is far far more important. My cockatiels had a seed and fresh vegie diet until about 10 years ago when they went onto pellets and vegies, but in the last couple of years they have moved back to a mixed diet of seed, pellets (always Roudybush when I can) and fresh food.

The oldest cockatiel I ever saw was 33 years old, and lived on seed and a sprig of parsley every day.plus the odd Nice biscuit.

cheers,

Mike

[Greybeard]

Mike you are 100% correct that day to day care plays a vital role in the health and longevity of an animal. My point is that to fix colour mutations often means inbreeding which causes problems. For example certain Gouldian finch colour mutations produce upto half the normal number of eggs per clutch and often the adults do not mate successfully. The birds are very pretty but they pay a price for their colour.
The same happened in dogs, think of the hip issues in german shepherds in the 70's or the manifold problems of the bulldog. I hope that we never see such problems in the avian world but history says that if we follow the same practices that we shall end up with the same type of issues.
Can we breed different colours and have healthy birds? Yes but if we go too far the birds will suffer for it.

[avinet]

The development of a new mutation does not of itself mean that the birds will lose genetic vigor and result in health problems. All that is involved in most colour mutations is a change to a single gene which codes for the colour of the feathers. All the other genes which are connected with the birds health and vigor remain intact in the mutation.

Problems come when care is not taken when developing a mutation and too little out-crossing is done, resulting in inbreeding. The problems that come with inbreeding will occur just as easily if normal birds are inbred.

In cockatiels when the Whiteface mutation first appeared in Australia - from legally imported birds in the early 1990's - they were very expensive - $1000 plus - and some get rich quick types indiscriminately inbred (brother/sister type matings) to pump out numbers and make money before th ebubble broke. The result was some very weedy poor birds. However since then out crossing to good quality normal birds has resulted in some excellent White-face cockatiels being available now.

When I had my shop we were as likely to see small poor quality normal cockatiels as we were to see poor mutations - the colour wasn't to blame just the breeding skills of the owners.

There have been and still are problems with some Gouldians - especially the blues. However the more common white-chested and yellow-backed mutations we used to see were just as good and healthy as the normals.

Dogs are a little different - selective breeding to make the dogs physically match a perceived breeding standard has resulted in some of the attrocities that are around today - German Shepherds with weak deformed back legs, Cavalier King Charles with skulls too small for their brains, breathing difficulties with the pug type faces and so on. But that sort of breeding involving skeletal modification is far different from merely playing around with the colour of feathers.

cheers,

Mike

[Greybeard]

You explained my point perfectly. It is the inbreeding that causes the problem. Add to the mix a quick buck and you get problems.
I agree that there are very healty mutations out there and I have no problem with those who breed them. My only concern is re the unscrupulous people who don't care about the health of the birds.
I appreciate you takinf the time to comment Mike.

[tobystephens]

Yes mutations are good to look at and while there is a market for them they are here to stay Like any thing supply and demand sumone will always fill the market for demand.

[blakeanderson]

Is a genetic mutation is very nice, but there is a market for them, where they will always remain the same supply and demand sumone anything to fill the market demand.