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Post by Gears on Apr 6, 2011 20:44:46 GMT 10
I usually simply search for answers to issues, but while there's info galore on feeding babies, I've found it rather difficult to find information on hand feeding adult birds  So, here's the deal... Hammy is my 2 year old "special needs" Alexandrine. She was diagnosed with neurological problems at 6 months (the equivalent of cerebral palsy). Due to this her co-ordination is compromised and walking & feeding has always been difficult. Now, 2 weeks ago she had a seizure (like a stroke) and a few other smaller seizures a few days later. I thought she was a goner.. BUT... she pulled through. She spent some time in a fish tank unable to stand or eat... but now she can stand & perch again. My query now is with feeding. She always had issues feeding but she's always managed to fumble around enough to get something, but she isn't able to feed herself at all right now, so I'm hand feeding by syringe. Okay... "What I'm feeding"... I've taken her Vetafarm Maintenance pellets and crushed the pellets into a rough powder. I've steamed and pureed Sweet Potato. Every meal I take 2 rounded teaspoons of pellet crush & a flat teaspoon of Sweet Potato puree, water gets added to make a paste & syringe fed. So the blend is about 80% pellet & 20% veggie. The water also gives her liquids, as drinking is a problem as well. "How much/how often"... from research I've found that her crop should hold apprx 10% of her body weight so a normal Alex is 250g. therefore crop size apprx 25ml. Yes, 25 mls seems to fill her crop nicely. I've also found that a 250g bird should eat apprx 50ml of food per day (This info is from AWRC for hand feeding rescue wildlife). So... she gets crushed pellets and puree twice a day at apprx 25ml per feed. Feeding at 0630-0700 am & 1800-1830 pm. Does that sound about right? I work full-time so feeding more than twice a day would be really difficult for me... on the weekends I do give her a lunchtime top up feed. She IS gaining weight weekly & has put on about 10g in 2 weeks (she lost a hell of a lot of weight & I know she's a girl now because with weight loss I could feel her pelvic bones when I bathed her)  Medically she is at the stage of "wait and see where she ends up". She can stand & perch again. She is taking a few steps without falling. She just can't yet co-ordinate enough to get food in her beak and "Chew & swallow". Hopefully she will get back to this at some stage, but if not then we just keep hand feeding. I gave her an almond piece yesterday and she took it in her beak, about 30 mins later I found the almond piece still sitting in her beak under her tongue! Any thoughts or input guys... sorry this was long... but the more info you have the better right?? Oh, and I'm syringe feeding but any suggestions for that? The plastic medicine syringes that come with kids medicine don't last too long before the plunger just stops plunging  |
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Post by avinet on Apr 6, 2011 22:50:41 GMT 10
I think the best guide to whether you are feeding enough, and the right sort of food is by the weight gain/loss. Since Hammy is gaining then I think there is nothing wrong with what you feed. The crushed pellets alone should provide adequate nutrition - pellets are supposed to be a complete food - and the sweet potato isn't exactly necessary but no doubt improves the taste so it is fine to give.
I am a bit surprised you can get 25ml into the crop - that 10% tends not to apply to older birds, since the crop gets smaller as the bird weans, but if she takes it without regurgitating, then I guess there isn't a problem. If circumstances allowed I would prefer to give three feeds of 15-17ml but if you can't then you are doing fine with the current routine.
Trying to start feeding older birds by syringe isn't the easiest to do - a normal Alex would rapidly chew the end off before you got much food in. However birds with special needs seem to appreciate what you are doing for them and can be much more positive about the process. I always use the standard syringes- those used for injections that have a removable needle pushed onto the tip - but they can be difficult to use if the mix is at all lumpy due to insufficient grinding of the pellets. However it is possible to open out the opening at the tip with a fine drill bit rotated by hand to ream out the opening.
I normally find I get several days use out of one - feeding babies 4 times a day - before the plunger starts perishing and sticking.
If you hae issues with lumps in the mix then alternatively maybe look at using a hand rearing mix, such as Vetafarm Neocare.
Good luck with Hammy, hope she continues to improve coordination and can start eating at least some food herself. Such birds are demanding and time consuming but also rewarding at the same time - I've had my share over the years.
cheers,
Mike
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Post by Gears on Apr 7, 2011 6:48:10 GMT 10
Thank you Mike  We always advocate feeding pellets AND fruit and veggies. That's why I decided to add the Sweet Potato to the pellet crush so Hammy can still get the veggie component too. I know what you mean about older birds chewing the syringe - I'd hate think about trying this with Jazz (my "normal" 4 year old Alex) but Hammy eats really well from the syringe and never rejected it, even from the start (I guess that tells me how much she needed it). The paste that I make up is somewhat thick, Hammy can take is & it's more like a food than a liquid. I have already bored out the ends of syringes with a thin scissor tip so that's all good. Where is the best place to get bulk syringes from? I started out with 3 and I'm needing more soon. I'm actually thinking of maybe buying one of the plexi-glass (boilable - re-usable) ones rather than the throw away ones. What do you think? Oh, and with her feeding we actually have a "meal" over the space of about 1/2 hour. I feed her about 10ml.. then I get the dogs, fish & peoples food ready... 15 mins later I feed her another 10ml... then I clean up her cage & get the peoples organised and other stuff... then 15 mins later I feed her another 5ml or so... she doesn't regurgitate anything and I think that helps her crop empty a bit as we go through the whole 30 minute process.. so she's taking in 25(ishml but it isn't all at once... does that seem okay to you? Thanx heaps Glennie |
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Post by flossy on Apr 7, 2011 9:29:15 GMT 10
I admire you Glennie.....you are doing an amazing thing for your bird Hammy. Many people would have given up by now. I wish you all the best and hope Hammy is on the road to recovery very soon. My hat is off to your determination.  |
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Post by avinet on Apr 7, 2011 9:41:04 GMT 10
Hi Glennie,
Sounds like you have it pretty well worked out and have a good routine with Hammy.
I used to have a pet shop for many years, until last year, and we ordered in syringes from the wholesalers, to sell in our shop (for $1) for hand feeders as well as accurate measuring of fish medications. So we had all sizes form 1 ml up to 50 ml. as well as 0.5 ml insulin syringes with fine needles for injecting birds.
All these came from two wholesalers, Animal Supplies in Sydney, and CPV in Brisbane. CPV went into liquidation a year or so ago and the new owners will almost certainly no longer keep them. Animal Supplies was primarily a wholesaler to the produce stores, so I suggest calling some produce stores around you, asking for the 10ml size, and if they don't stock them if they can order them in.
I don't know of any other pet shop that sold sell them, but maybe a chemist can order some in for you, if you explain why you need them.
I suggest getting a drill bit to open out the tip, it gives a cleaner finish than the scissors, just take one down to your local hardware shop and get the right size to open the tip and still leave you a bit of wall.
good luck with Hammy,
cheers,
Mike
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Post by Gears on Apr 7, 2011 15:29:42 GMT 10
Thank you Flossy... but really we just do what we gotta do right? My theory is that if I had a child with "special needs" would I give up the child? NO WAY... (I've actually said that to my brother-in-law when he was going on about me "pandering to a useless bird".. he was NOT impressed & he still couldn't understand...)... Mike, I've checked around a bit now & there's a farming supplies place on ebay that sell bulk lots of syringes. Also my sister works at QML & I've asked her if they maybe have something she could get through them? She has managed to get me some 10ml syringes... YAYYYY... so I'm all set for a little while... I've got the multitude of drill bits (as I'm sure we all do for toy making) so I'll bore out the tips properly... I feel a lot better knowing that you guys agree with my thoughts on what I'm doing with Hammy. As long as she's gaining weight I know I've got it mostly right... but... I just needed to bounce off you guys because I just can't get relevant info for hand feeding adults... Thank you sooooo much... sincerely... Thank you  |
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Post by flossy on Apr 7, 2011 18:18:05 GMT 10
Goodluck Glennie....and please keep us posted with Hammy's progress...... Also, just as an after thought about the syringes, I buy my 25ml ones in a bulk box from my local chemist. They work out around 50cents each from memory...it's been a year or so since I bought my last box of them, but it was much more cost efficient that way. You could always ask your pharmacist to order you some in?  ? Take care, and scratches for your babies..... Flossy  |
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Post by avinet on Apr 7, 2011 21:11:24 GMT 10
Thank you Flossy... but really we just do what we gotta do right? My theory is that if I had a child with "special needs" would I give up the child? NO WAY... (I've actually said that to my brother-in-law when he was going on about me "pandering to a useless bird".. he was NOT impressed & he still couldn't understand...)... I feel a lot better knowing that you guys agree with my thoughts on what I'm doing with Hammy. As long as she's gaining weight I know I've got it mostly right... but... I just needed to bounce off you guys because I just can't get relevant info for hand feeding adults... Non-bird people just don't understand do they! I used to come across this often in our shop - someone would bring in their bird in tears because their partner had told them to get rid of it; I would often feel like saying if your partner is like that then maybe it is time to change partners and not the bird  Of course you can't say that to someone's face but the urge was there! We have had our fair share of handicapped birds - Among several, we currently have an Alex hen nearing 2 years old, who had, as a baby being hand raised, constantly discharging eyes. We tried all sorts of antibiotics, lots of test, and nothing fixed it. It wasn't infectious to the other babies she was raised with, but the eyes constantly discharged. Eventually we had special Digital X-Rays done of her skull with contrast fluid injected into the nostrils which showed that the exit from the sinuses into the back of the throat was blocked. We then followed with an operation - believed to be the first in Australia - to try to unblock the sinuses. It was successful on one side but only partially on the other, so she still has some discharge on that side but is fine on the other. So after spending a fortune on her, and still having a bird that is not exactly pretty with matted feathers around the eye, she really couldn't be sold and so joined the other 10 pet Alexes we already had in the house. Friends who don't have birds think we are crazy to spend many hundreds in vets bills on a bird that we were supposed to sell, but they just don't understand do they! cheers, Mike |
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Post by twr on Apr 7, 2011 23:54:11 GMT 10
I really admire you. You are doing such a great job with Hammy. She is lucky to have you as her birdie mum.
I was going to suggest eBay for the syringes. I bought a whole bunch for accurate medication of fish tanks, but I see you already found the eBay sellers.
I hope that Hammy learns to be able to eat for herself soon. Please keep us updated on her progress.
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Post by flossy on Apr 8, 2011 8:32:29 GMT 10
Wow Mike, that's an amazing story too! Glad I'm not the only one who would sell everything I had for my animals!! They are the best friends you could ever have - be it they have feathers, fur or scales....my animals mean the world to me and I wouldn't be without them...... The relationships I have with each of them is very different but so so precious....each having their own little quirks, good and bad habits but each displaying their love in very different ways. Nobody can understand how I love my Bearded Dragon the way I do......but Bruce is gorgeous! I get kisses and snuggles from him and I absolutely love his personality. Same goes with my other reps.....they are who I am...a part of me....more loyal than any human I know!! Anyway, here I go again..............lol...........sorry peeps but I get very passionate and emotional about my babies..... Hope you all have a fab day!! I've just had kisses from Savannah (Major), Doofy (Alex) and Wazzle (Ecky)......A song from Toddles (Quaker), a laughing competiton with my lorries Percy and Nelson, Zuri (Jenday)watches on in amazement......and little Charlie (Newly adopted greencheek) is like....what the hell am I doing here.....LOL! (Neil....told you he will be as mad as the rest soon.......hehehehe) Oh well......nobody said my life was boring....hehehehehe Better go my cat Dude needs a brush and my dog Squirt needs a bath!! Woohooooooo.......xx |
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gypsy
Bronze Member
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Post by gypsy on Apr 8, 2011 8:52:57 GMT 10
Hope you all have a fab day!! I've just had kisses from Savannah (Major), Doofy (Alex) and Wazzle (Ecky)......A song from Toddles (Quaker), a laughing competiton with my lorries Percy and Nelson, Zuri (Jenday)watches on in amazement......and little Charlie (Newly adopted greencheek) is like....what the hell am I doing here.....LOL! (Neil....told you he will be as mad as the rest soon.......hehehehe) Oh well......nobody said my life was boring....hehehehehe Better go my cat Dude needs a brush and my dog Squirt needs a bath!! Woohooooooo.......xx LOL - any room in the house for me  sounds like I would fit in quite well well we do have a sign on our door that says "welcome to udder chaos" LOL And Glennie, wow, what love and dedication you are showing to Hammy - I do so admire you, and with such love Hammy must feel the good 'vibes' and be trying so hard to get better! Sally |
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Of course you can't say that to someone's face but the urge was there!
sounds like I would fit in quite well