|
|
Post by billspets on Dec 29, 2004 14:22:52 GMT 10
hello all
just wondering if anyone can explain the differances between the platinum and the lutino cinnamon and what if the genetic make up of both
regards
bill
|
|
|
|
Post by hillcresttiels on Dec 29, 2004 15:08:23 GMT 10
Ok Bill for starters all 3 are Sex linked ,2ndly they are 3 different identities even though you only mention 2 mutations.Platinum is a unique to Australia only Smokey Grey color tone with Red to Ruby eye color that darkens soon after birth and a Lutino-Cinnamon is a variety that carries 2 visual sex linked genes and are usually hens.To produce a Lutino Cinnamon you combine a Lutino cock with a Cinnamon hen.Some of the offspring male chicks born will be Normal split Lutino and split Cinnamon this is called a Multi split.When these Multi Split offspring males go on and breed they will produce Normals,Lutino's,Cinnamon's and Lutino-Cinnamon's which all will be hens this occurs from 2 genes that cross-over to become one and usually occurs approx 30% of the time to distinguish the two especially when pied is evident one is Silvery the other is a Brownish tone.
A Lutino Cinnamon is a Yellowish tone(like a normal lutino) with a Cinnamon wash thru the back shoulders wings and very evident on the flight feathers a mutation which I'm not fond of as find it to be a dirty appearance.
You can also have the reverse Multi Mutation a Cinnamon-.Lutino which is more a Cinnamon with Lutino splashes thru it with both varieties carrying red eyes that darken with maturity,hope you are not confused
Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by lovemytiels on Dec 29, 2004 19:07:32 GMT 10
Oh bugger Frank, now I am totally confused about the baby who I thought was a lutino who was sensative to light but has come good. I asked Bill what he thought & he said he would post this for me & I know it is hard without a pic but the baby's eyes have now turned a dark colour with no hint of plum or red. It is more of a creamy colour with a hint of a cinnamon wash through it's tail & it is split for pied as it has yellow markings at the back of it's head. I don't believe it is a clear pied either. So in a nutshell the dark eyes have thrown me as to what it's mutation is. The mum is a lutino pearl & the father is w/face split for pied & lutino but don't know if he is carrying any other splits & this is the first time they have breed. Any clues to help me?  Cheers Anna Olive |
|
|
|
Post by hillcresttiels on Dec 29, 2004 21:28:36 GMT 10
It has to be a Lutino with pied tick markings indicating split to Pied ,if it was Lutino-Cinnamon the Cinnamon would be very distinguishable however i think if you flash a torch in the eyes at dark you will see the redness only in Lutino Pied do the eyes remain bright red.Male Lutino's develop a sandy wash thru their tale and flights as they mature giving them a semi dirty appearance  I would also look at giving the sire a different mate as sometimes enhancing the Lutino gene can lead to problems,I personally would look at putting the dad to a whiteface hen of some sort as to breed Albino hens,is the head coverage good or is there a bald spot showing cheers Frank |
|
|
|
Post by lovemytiels on Jan 3, 2005 4:35:31 GMT 10
Hi Frank, thanks for your advise. After looking at catbirds pics, I think I might have a platinum pied or if male a platino pied as my baby bird is very similar in the colour. This baby has no bald spot & neither do the parents. As I am hoping to breed from it & it should be split for w/face, what would you suggest I breed it with. At the moment I have no visual w/face females but I do have some split for w/face females & hopefully this coming season at long last I should get some visual w/faces after 3 years of careful breeding. The babys dad was an unknown as he flew into my yard but what a bonus he has been despite being a feather plucker. Hence that is why I h/rear any babies that he is partnered with otherwise he is a model dad & very tame for an avairy bird. Cheers for now Anna ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by hillcresttiels on Jan 3, 2005 6:52:29 GMT 10
Hi Anna I dont want to confuse you as i'm struggling to put together all the info here,do you know the parents of this bird? if so let me know as that will help if it is Platino then the obvious choice is some form of Platinum hen however if you cannot get your hands on one the a Whitefaced hen with no Cinnamon involved would be a good choice as this breeding will confirm the males genetic status from the hens that he will breed.Platino partnered to a wface will produce both Whiteface Lutino hens(Albino) and Platinum hens! A Cinnamon or Lutino or both hen would confirm first choice cheers Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by lovemytiels on Jan 3, 2005 9:23:29 GMT 10
Hi Frank, okay here goes. The parents of the baby in question are as follows: Mother: lutino pearl split for pied Fatther: visual w/face split for pied, lutino & obviously something else. I have 2 more babies from these parents & they started off with red eyes but now they have darkened like the first baby.. One is definately coming in a very silvery colour. I will try to post a pic as I know it can be confusing but I am still hopeless at taking pics with my didgital camera. No matter what I do they all come out blurry. I thank you for your help as I have never had platinums before apart from the one I just bought who I think is a male as it is making male sounds so he would be classed as a platino pied then & not a platinum pied as they are females? Cheers Anna |
|
|
|
Post by hillcresttiels on Jan 3, 2005 12:27:26 GMT 10
Hi Anna not all Platinum males are Platinos. A Platino is a bird that has been bred from a Platinum and a Lutino pair doesn't matter which is which, If I was a guessing I would say that the dad is Wf/pied/Lut and Cinnamon and along with mums genitics you have have produced a crossover giving you a female Lutino-Cinnamon split pied/wface.For the bird to be Platino dad has to be split Paltinum-Lutino will be interested to see the photos whether the chick coming thru is Platinum or Cinnamon the eyes will tell you. I tried taking photos on a manual setting and they come out blurry so i reverted to Auto setting and they come out fine!! cheers Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by lovemytiels on Jan 4, 2005 5:29:31 GMT 10
OMG Frank now I'm totally confused LOL . The father of the baby in question I don't believe is split for cinnamon as last year I paired him with a cinnamon female & out of the 14 babies that they produced there was not one visual cinnamon & you would think that if he was carrying the cinnamon gene that there would have been at least one visual baby. Will see if my camera has an auto setting as I think they only way to get this mystery solved is to try & take a pic & post it. I will be taking the new babies out for h/rearing in the next couple of days, so will wait till they feather up a bit more to take a pic. Thanks for your help. Cheers Anna. |
|
|
|
Post by hillcresttiels on Jan 4, 2005 7:26:06 GMT 10
No probs Anna I didn,t want to confuse you I think the photo is the way to go! as you can see the many combinations of breeds in tiels is becoming americanised thats why i jump on my high horse every time i here of incompatible breeding practices such as mixing sex linked varieties that are similar in tones. The most annoying one is mixing Platinum to Cinnamon and ending up with Plat-Cinn hens there are heaps out there and breeders dont know it, look forward to the photo if you have probs posting it let Bill or myself know and we can help cheers  Frank |
|
I would also look at giving the sire a different mate as sometimes enhancing the Lutino gene can lead to problems,I personally would look at putting the dad to a whiteface hen of some sort as to breed Albino hens,is the head coverage good or is there a bald spot showing cheers 