Living with an African grey...

[abby-oldaccount]

a personal perspective. This is purely what I’ve discovered researching pre Arthur and since having the boy at home. Would love to have input from Clara and Mike here too.
I see so often people saying on forums oh I want to get a grey, but not being aware of many things about them. It kinda goes without saying that in Australia the average handraised baby grey will set you back $4000-$5000+. That’s just for birdy alone. They are a class 1 bird with EBAG so you will need a record book and have to send in returns yearly. Being a bird that does need to keep that brain working toys are absolutely essential and quite a variety. This means also the largest cage you can get. Greys are notoriously klutzy especially when younger. This means that while you do need a large cage it can’t be too high.
The joy of living with them. They can be absolutely wonderful or drive you completely insane often in the same hour. Just when you think you’ve got things worked out with new toys lo and behold you’ll hear the grey panic screams and growls erupt because the toy all of a sudden is scary. Or you’ve forgotten to announce that you’re entering the room with an unfamiliar object and a minor breakdown takes place. I’m not kidding, I walked in with a cane basket to put Arthur’s toys in, forgot to announce it then spent the next 10minutes calming him down over the horrid basket that was now out of the room. I learnt after that time.
My guy chatters away and for nearly 7months old has quite a vocab ( 20 plus words/phrases) and often uses things in context. He’s going through a bit of a toddler tantrum stage atm and is really pushing boundaries. I do ignore bad behaviour and praise good. Apparently I do comment occasionally though (probably when he decides that he wants my attention NOW and starts biting my hands while I’m busy). He was on his playtop doing I don’t remember what but it wasn’t good and I shot the death glare at him. Next minute heard a muttered “naughty boy”. He’s developed this awful squeal of late, probably picked it up from the boys but it just makes me cringe everytime I hear it. He knows it too even though I ignore it. It’s the ultimate way to really get up mum’s nose by repeatedly doing it better still at close range.
As great as the boy is with his speech and he has just learnt to shake hands and wave bye bye there is no chance that he’ll do any of this if people are around unless he knows them really well. Most of the time he’ll do his best impersonation of a stuffed bird.
They are a bird that thrives on mental stimulation. Without it they become a very sorrowful and often plucked creature. They are also incredibly emotional and one has to be very aware of the birds body language when introducing new objects or people to their world. It’s just not worth persisting if you can see that your grey is stressed. Better to just back off a bit and go slower. Chances are that if you continue to push you’ll end up with a disaster.
I know Mike said his greys are clipped, Arthur is flighted, however he’s also harness trained (would only ever go aviator with a grey) and we’re working on recall. There are mixed opinions on clipping greys. It’s a debate I don’t really want to get drawn into. I love watch Arthur fly through the house, however we have also had to take a lot of safety precautions and make sure everyone adheres to them. It’s also the reason for me persisting with recall training. Having a large flighted bird in the house isn’t for everyone.
So after having the boy for the past 3 ½ months what would be my recommendations on anyone getting a grey. As with any bird do you research. They are a bird you need to find that emotional click with. Try and meet some, speak to people on some of the African grey forums who have them (just make sure you get your backside back here ) and read. If that emotional click isn’t there and you’re after something similar size wise and price wise then consider an Amazon. Bundle of fun, intelligent and half the neurotics of a grey. Closer to home an Ekkie also similar size and a lot less price wise.
Hope you’ve enjoyed this little read and I’m always ready to tell stories about the big grey boy.

[avinet]

Hi Abby,

I have had my male for just over 2 years now, the girl for 1 year, and can relate to much of what you wrote. Like Arthur, Ernie is very cautious of anything new, be it a new toy or food. It can take him a week or more of staring at a new toy before he will start playing with it. The two Greys recently spent a week with a bird owning friend while we were away and she gave them some beetroot, which he had never seen before. Apparently he spent 30 minutes just staring at it, before going close. Jamila on the other hand is much more confident. She will go straight up to a new toy, and strange food immediately gets checked out for taste. She apparently tried the beetroot without a worry. Only after she had eaten most of it did Ernie give it a tentative try.

Maybe it is a male thing - Ernie and Arthur certainly seem very similar in personality but Jamila is much more confident and relaxed. But then again it might be a hand raising and socialising factor since the person who bred Jamila does a better job with birds that are to be pets than Ernie's breeder.

One area where my birds may differ is in "klutzyness". Both are very sure-footed and acrobatic. Ernie especially is very impressive - never had any sign of being clumsy. Also neither bird has gone through a toddler tantrum stage, and the only bite I have ever had from either was from Ernie when he was getting a wing trim and I wasn't holding his head securely - so that was understandable!

Since I do take them with me to work where they get to meet a lot of people both are confident around strangers to a degree. That is, they will happily go to someone's arm if I pass them on but they probably won't step up to a stranger if I am not "OKing" it. However Ernie, who can talk his head of at home, virtually never says a word at work, but will do a range of whistles - he makes up his own tunes. Similarly if someone comes to our house, he will not say a word for several hours. Jamila on the other hand hasn't started talking much yet, but I am sure will not have the same shyness in front of strangers.

A feature of Ernie with strangers, and which most remark on, is the way he looks at them. He really appears to be checking them out - it is amazing how intelligent his eyes and expression can appear, which of course is what you would expect from a Grey. But even non-bird people who know nothing about Greys and their demonstrated intelligence remark on the intelligent look he has when examining them. Jamila has the same look but her attention span is much shorter - she soon gets onto playing with my watch strap or glasses. She doesn't sit still for long.

The birds get treated at home much the same as all our other birds, they get the same food, are out of the cage at the same times and recieve much tha same amount of attention as all the rest - which with 16 birds means not all that much direct contact. They do get much more talking to though, because of course they respond much better than the others. They also don't have an especially large cage - an HQ13221 model in fact which is our standard cage at home. It is a cage probably more suited to a single Grey but the two are closely bonded - do mutual preening, he regurgitates food to her, they play together, and feed together - so the cage works out reasonably well.

One area I can very closely relate to Abby with is noise. Greys CAN BE LOUD!!!! Having a variety of other birds means that Ernie is perfect in talking in the Cockatiel, King Parrot , Princess and Ringneck languages. And of course he prefers the louder more piercing calls the others make. And of course he is bigger with a stronger set of lungs so can be twicw as loud. His really annoying sound currently is a smoke detector. He only heard one for around 10 seconds when I foolishly tested ours when he was in the house, but that was long enough. The only good part is he only makes the sound for the 10 seconds. It is quite amazing how quickly he can pick up a sound he likes. I bought a clicker a while ago planning to try clicker training with him, and after hearing the clicker just twice he was repeating the sound! With all his loud sounds if I turn to look at him he will say "Bad Boy, Baaaaad Boy" and then repeat the sound shortly after!

Looking after a single Grey is a big challenge. An animal as intelligent as they are has significant emotional needs, as well as needing to be constantly intelectually stimulated. However my philosophy of bird keeping is to as far as possible to keep them in bonded pairs, and I was in the fortunate position to be able to do that with Ernie and Jamila. It measn that they are far less reliant on me for companionship and it also means that I can enjoy them behaving as birds with each other. It also means that the dreaded plucking has never been a problem. A significant proportion of Grey owners I know have had plucking problems with just a single Grey, particularly in a single bird household. Even having other species of parrot around seems to help to keep them mentally occupied - evenif it is only working on perfecting their language skills.

I would love to have them able to fly, but the lifestyle they have - accompanying me to my work 5 days a week, means they have to be clipped - and the mental stimulation and pleasure they get from going with me outweighs the clipping. And clipping doesn't seem to mentally scar them at all.

Thats about all I have time for at present - no doubt there will be plenty of more about the Greys in future posts,

cheers,

Mike

[abby-oldaccount]

I think having spoken to some American grey owners the current toddler tantrums are a mix of age, the kids have all gone back to school last week and spending more time with the quaker babes getting them trained and ready for new homes. One spoilt brat has his beak out of joint. The biting is like a nipping/beaking rather then full crunch (which I've had as someone is borderline phobic about his feet being touched )kind of equivalent to a toddler pulling at you for attention.
Arthurs "klutziness" comes from learning to negotiate his way through the house. There's been the odd crash into walls and door frames which he recovers from well while I hold my breath checking for damage. He also has a habit of hanging upside down from certain toys screaming at them then miscalculating his footing and crashing to the cage floor.
I have to admit I am so glad the suns and lorikeets weren't in here when Arthur arrived. He can still hear the lorikeets outside and we get the odd lori squeal from him. As you said Mike, bigger set of lungs higher volume.
"A feature of Ernie with strangers, and which most remark on, is the way he looks at them. He really appears to be checking them out - it is amazing how intelligent his eyes and expression can appear, which of course is what you would expect from a Grey. But even non-bird people who know nothing about Greys and their demonstrated intelligence remark on the intelligent look he has when examining them. " Arthur does the same thing and I've had similar comments. It's a real sussing people out type thing.
I may get an Ekkie or Amazon down the track but for me atm Arthur is my baby boy, my 20year dream. The again I'm just as likely to end up getting another grey. Well my 40th birthday is only a few years away.

[avinet]

abby said:

He also has a habit of hanging upside down from certain toys screaming at them

my 20year dream. The again I'm just as likely to end up getting another grey. Well my 40th birthday is only a few years away.

Ernie does the hanging upsidedown thing screaming and attackinghis toys, often with just one claw holding onto the cage roof. Jamila on the other hand never does it - much more refined with her play.

If you want to get a second then the sooner the better - they are much more likely to bond the younger they are. And, if breeding is a potential aim, the USa breeders I've talked to and visited all say that if a male Grey has been on his own for a few years as a pet they are essentially useless for breeding - too humanized.

As I type this I have one on each shoulder - Ernie wants constant head scratches (he is feeling very affectionate this evening) while Jamila is busily preening herself, it feels like being in a snowstorm, they produce a lot of feather dust! And I am getting regular soft "OOOO" sounds which they use as a contact sound with me and each other. I am expected to "OOOO" back at them and they will "OOOO" to me until I do reply, getting more strident the longer it takes me to reply. Ernie always sits on the left shoulder and Jamila on the right. If Jamila is on the wrong shoulder he can get quite upset, although at times he allows her onto his shoulder to do some mutual preening.

I call Ernie "big boy" and Jamila "little girl" but often when I say "little girl" Ernie will say "BIG girl". Amazing birds - they were my 60th birthday present to myself

cheers,

Mike

[sebzpets]

Mike and Abby this is a great thread and the info you guys are giving out brilliant!!

Personally I don't think I could live with a grey (learn't I can't live with some dog breeds the hard way so wouldn't even bother contemplating a grey).

Some of the "nuances" your birds have are sound really amusing even though they are really naughty.

Keep up the great work guys it certainly makes great reading at 5am.

[clara]

Hi, i have read all even if i have not all understood i agree for a lot of things. When i bought Kodi i didn't know any thing about greys...
Even if there are common things one grey is different than an other like human.
Common things:
- afraid about news things
- clever
- need alwais mental stimulation
- sensibility emotionelle to hight
- naughty some time
- esclusive ( but not true for all)
etc...
Abought kodi, had the wings cut when i brought her, she was alwais with me even out but a day she flew. Once i cut her wings she was not happy and me i had the heart broken, will never do it again.
Even a single evenement can destabilise (disturb) the bird.
A change of my work destabilised her and she is plucking now since 4 yers and half. At home there were others birds not parrots.
I know a man who have two greys young and know the male is plucking he doesn't know why; they are two, they have a lot of toys, his whife is often at home , often out their cage then why?
Here no vet can do anthing.
Me i bought a friend for her , a youyou, an after an other grey , but she is alwais plucking. I bought a big cage too, and i put her back to the old cage.
The man bought a very monumental cage for their too, and he have changed this to put the greys to the others smaller cage.

About the food , kodi don't want all vegee and Eomer too
They need more calcium than the other....
Kodi has not a good carractère, but Eomer is more cute.
Eomer is not clipped and i love to see him flyes at home.
You said that the aviator harness is easy to put?
I put one to Eomer and went out , he was afraid by all.
Really i think they are too hard to understand. I try to understand, and looking for a solution since longtime
I don't kno if you have saw but even the great Alex was plucking
But they are too cute and i love them ;D but i would like they depend less of me.
Hope i am clear ;D
Amicalement.

[abby-oldaccount]

You are clear Clara. I sometimes forget with the English.
I started getting Arthur use to the aviator when he was 16weeks old. I showed it to him, and he started playing with it straight away. I then played with his head running my hand over is head in like a tube, tickling him under his wings so he would lift them. I then put aviator over his head and took it off over and over until he was used to it. Then we finally put it on. He sometimes grumbles while I put it on but he's ok. Just chews the straps at times so have to keep inspecting for damage. It took 2-3 weeks before I had Arthur wearing the harness. Just took it slow and step by step.

Mike I don't want to breed greys even though I do have much encouragement from some people. I'm happy to have them as companions/pets. Breeding them doesn't interest me. My breeding plans are really with the South Americans and cockatiel mutations. I really adore my quakers and conures and have the hope of a pair of caiques down the track.

[grego]

Boy my eye's are sore..lol..reading all this (just kidding)
Great to see everyone's perspective on African Grey here,well done, good reading

[clara]

Thanks for your answer Abby
Amicalement.

[silvercloud]

What a wonderful thread. I've always liked the looks and intelligence of greys but have never seriously considered sharing my life with one. After reading all your wonderful experiences and comments I haven't changed my mind but I love reading about them and seeing pics of them up to all sorts ;D Information like you guys are putting down here is invaluable to anyone considering a grey.

[shanlung]

This is a very good thread on greys for anyone thinking of having one of them.

I knew that was my Tinkerbell the moment our eyes locked on each other. I seen about 20-30 greys in the weeks prior to that. Her name came into my heart there and then.

Greys are empaths. Probably all birds are to a certain degree.
shanlung.livejournal.com/2187.html

As all greys are going to be so different, I only can talk of Tinkerbell.

What she would do with me when I got back home from office depended on my mood. If I was down, she would fly to me and just stay on my shoulder with little nibbles on my ears. If I was happy, she then would be very bitchy. She would ambush my pocket and flew off with my ciggies to shred them. Or to throw that ciggie pack at either my cat or ferret.

She remembered far too well. Its kind of unbelievable how she would hold a grudge until you apologise. Illustrated in this particular incident "Tinkerbell throw tantrum"
www.geocities.com/shanlung9/w1tinkthrowtantrum.htm

She was so intelligent that me and my wife had to resort to talk in Chinese or to spell out words so Tinkerbell would not know. Since she was with the Yu family, I found out that she became bilingual now.

Much as I love her, I felt intimidated at times at her intelligence. There had been times we have had conversations.

It is not likely that the grey that you have will play second fiddle to any other creatures that may be living with you.

Your life not likely to be the same again once you got a grey to join you.

Warmest regards

Shanlung
www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[grego]

Great pic there Shalung ,the look in her eye's show's how much she love's you "so to speak" ,well taken

[AussieBirds]

What a great string we have here everyone is to be congratulated for their contribution I found it very interesting and informative.

John

[Jane]

Mary & Mike & Clara & Shanlung Thanks again for this.....any updates? Anythings that surprised you even after all the research before purchase?

[clara]

HI,
Something about cages.
Somes greys don't like big cage ( i have readen that on french forum). It is valable for greys witch are longtime off it and they want a little cage of travel for sleep
I have received a big cage for kodi and Eomer and now they are both. Yes a big cage is good when they cannot be longtime out.


Amicalement.

[Jane]

Thanks Clara, wow that is a very big cage

Do you put them in a smaller cage for sleep?

[meandem]

That is an awesome cage! I wish I had room to put a cage like that inside - I might move the kids into the aviaries and bring some more birds in side.

[avinet]

Aug 2, 2008 13:15:31 GMT 10 Jane said:

Mary & Mike & Clara & Shanlung Thanks again for this.....any updates? Anythings that surprised you even after all the research before purchase?

I don't really have much to add - owning two Greys is still a marvellous experience I thoroughly enjoy. They still are just as good natured, still lovely pet birds, and they still greatly enjoy going to the shop whenever I work - and I enjoy showing them off to customers They share a cage and share their travel box (a cat carrier) and are extremely compatible with each other. They don't have a large cage - for those who know cage models they share an HQ 13221 cage (same size as an Avi One 604) but while on the small size they are perfectly happy in it.

My hope is that when they get mature enough to breed they will still retain their pet qualities and won't go feral on me. I hope they will end up breeding in their present cage in our family room - from what I hear from my American friends that would be exceptional but since they are such good birds at present I live in hope.

The first photo shows a view of our cages in the family room. The first has Jello and Sasha - currently with a nest box in it since Jello is ready to lay soon. Then the Grey's cage (with their travel box on the floor between cages) then the thrid cage is the cockatiel cage - seven cockatiels plus a Plumhead hen, and finall the edge of the fourth cage which houses the pair of Princesses and the Crimson-wing male, Ziggy. Since all the birds except for the Greys are at least 12 years old and have lived together all their lives, we have no problems with aggression, except for Ziggy not liking Jello for some reason.

The second photo is of the Greys cage - nothing terribly remarkable to comment on - it might be considered small but they are happy in it, and they do get to spend 5 days a week at the shop in the pet bird nursery.

cheers,

Mike

[farseeker]

I love reading this thread - part of me would love an African Grey but another much larger part thinks I'm not really ready or able to handle one yet. Perhaps in the future when I'm settled and have more experience, maybe. Still, it's lovely to hear all about them, and everyone's experiences with them.

And on another note - Mike, I'm so jealous! That's exactly the cage that I want to get for Trouble and I haven't been able to track it down anywhere. None of the petstores here have it, and I can't even find one on ebay. Just have to keep looking I guess!

[meandem]

Mike, your family room looks like ours - cages everywhere. I am a sucker for having the birds with me at all times, I just wish I could have them all in here - or me move out there! I have a lot of hand raised birds in the aviaries, and it is so heartbreaking when I close them up of a night and they are looking at me in wonder why they aren't coming inside.......... But the excitement the next morning when I go and see them is so rewarding.