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Post by avinet on Jun 10, 2008 22:03:04 GMT 10
I have recently seen a scientific article that looks at the results of feeding different diets to breeding budgies. Part of the aim was to see if the protein content of the diet had any effect on the likelihood of gout occuring, and partly to see how breeding was affected. 105 pairs of budgies were divided into four groups with one group being fed a seed plus vitamin/mineral supplement, and the other three groups being fed a pellets diet but with the protein content varying in the three groups from 13.5% to 18.2% and 25%. The seed diet had a protein level of 13.4%. The experiment lasted 6 months and the pairs were allowed to have up to 3 clutches in that time. After three clutches they were stopped from breeding. The likelihood of gout was estimated by the blood uric acid level - the higher it is the more likely uric acid crytals are to be deposited in organs and joints of the body. There was little difference in uric acid at the end of the experiment in those birds fed different protein pellet diets however the seed group had blood uric acid levels around 25% higher than the birds on pellets, suggesting that a seed diet may contribute to gout in budgies. However the interesting part from my point of view was the breeding results. The three groups fed pellets had very similar results, indicating that protein levels were not a significant factor in breeding success. However the group fed seed had significantly worse results. For example the pairs fed pellets averaged about 15 eggs over the period, while the seed group only averaged 12. Similarly with fertility, with an average of over 10 eggs fertile for the pellet group while the seed group averaged only 7 eggs fertile. A similar discrepancy also occured with the figures for number hatched and number fledged. So, yet another reason to feed pellets  The paper is: Angel, R., and Ballam, G. (1995). Dietary protein effect on parakeet reproduction, growth and plasma uric acid. Proc Annu Conf Assoc Avian Vet, 1995 cheers, Mike |
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Post by abby-oldaccount on Jun 11, 2008 8:02:15 GMT 10
Here I go back to debating with you Mike... Could you possibly pm me a link to the paper so I could have a good look through it or is it only available as a paper copy? If that's the case then I'll give you my address and would really appreciate a photocopy of it. I'm always interested in what research has come out and the exact methods used. Now my points... I feel there is a difference between a vit/min supplement and whole foods. Unless the supplement is being given via a crop needle there is no way of knowing accurately how much the birds have actually taken in. This is a variable. Also were all pairs approximately the same age? Did they all have the same amount of breeding experience? I also have an ethical issue with the budgies being allowed to lay 3 clutches in 6 months. This takes alot out of the birds and a supplement will not replace what they're losing during this stressful time. There are natural proteins available in sprouted foods. These are also a great soft food for the parents to feed to the babes. My own personal experience with a young pair of budgie first timers on a seed, fruit/veg/spout diet was 7/7. My quakers for their first time were 4/4. GCCs 4/4 with one loss due to inadequate nesting material and dad squashing. With this pair of GCC they had previously laid one batch of infertile eggs however. My cockatiels are all over the place. Number of variables have affected breeding success there.  My argument isn't about whether pellets are better then seed or vice versa. I feel they each have their place. I believe that birds need more in their diet both nutritionally and psychologically then an all seed or all pellet diet. Now if there was another group where soft foods in conjunction to seed and/or pellets was used then I would be very interested to see the results. I'm also aware that there is difficulty in knowing exactly what has been eaten from these soft foods, much the same as the vit/min supplements. I'd hope by now that we do realise that an all seed diet does not provide a sufficient amount of nutrition. Personally I still stand by my opinion on variety which includes pellets, seed and fresh foods. PS. I've been involved in my past with analyzing research papers. |
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Post by avinet on Jun 11, 2008 8:55:36 GMT 10
Hi Mary,
As far as I am aware the paper is only available through a university subscription to on-line journals. I did a quick Google on the author's names but didn't turn up the paper. However I am happy to post you a copy if you PM me your address.
I have comments about the rest of your post but don't have time just now as it's time to get off to work, so will do the reply tonight.
cheers,
Mike
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Post by robert on Jun 11, 2008 12:17:14 GMT 10
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Post by abby-oldaccount on Jun 11, 2008 14:12:05 GMT 10
Hi Mary, However I am happy to post you a copy if you PM me your address. I have comments about the rest of your post but don't have time just now as it's time to get off to work, so will do the reply tonight. cheers, Mike Many thanks Mike I'll pm it to you. Look forward to your comments.  I don't think you'll ever convince me that an all pellet diet is superior to one of variety, however I'm still interested as always in what you have to say. |
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Post by avinet on Jun 14, 2008 22:01:05 GMT 10
I have managed to locate an online copy of the paper - go to tinyurl.com/6f3pelI won't worry about posting a copy to you now Mary. cheers, Mike |
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Post by rainbowfeathers77 on Jun 14, 2008 22:41:01 GMT 10
Thanks for that Mike!
I am currently in the process of converting all my birds onto pellets. My scarlets were the easiest....no trouble at all....my ringies and red-rumps are still converting. I still provide fresh veggies in the mornings and either fruit or bean mix or soaked seed in the avo (every day) and I will aslo add seed sticks to my birds so that they still get some seed...or leave a container of seed in, just for a short period.
Just getting the pellets (vetafarm I use) is hard...no petshop ever has the ones I need so I have to order thru vetafarm....but I will try and order thru pet barn or alike...just that it takes for ever to get it from them.
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Post by abby-oldaccount on Jun 15, 2008 7:52:48 GMT 10
Interesting read. Thanks for finding that. What I get from the paper is that it isn't so much the proteins that were thought to be the issue as much as the lack of amino acids from the proteins in the diet .
My understanding of dietary nutrition is that by feeding a mix of just sprouted legume/seed mix with grains such as quinoa (cooked) these essential amino acids can be added to the diet in a slightly more natural form. yeah ok cooking quinoa is an added step but you know what I mean.
Just for the record...I do feed pellets. They are part of a diet though, not the whole diet.
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Post by robert on Nov 4, 2009 15:31:41 GMT 10
New people especially might be interested.
from Robert and Precious
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Post by CatsChair on Nov 4, 2009 17:06:32 GMT 10
Interesting article. I suspect that pellets for the birds are a bit like me taking vitamins...if we paid a lot more time and attention to a well balanced diet, we would not need them. Alas, the same person is in charge of both diets and pulled in ten directions at once (yes, the birds do eat a lot better than I do ). That said, all of my birds get a mix of pellets, seed and fresh food. It is interesting that we seem to be giving more protein than they need to breed and raise clutches--suspect that is not a problem as long as they don't have any problems with clearing them. Thanks for the info! |
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Post by courtzrocks on Nov 4, 2009 20:46:22 GMT 10
I do pellet, seed and fruit and veg....i dont trust all pellet, hasnt been around long enough and my cockatiel has never eaten anything other than seed...trill to be exact..yes trill and he is 19 yrs old and still going. So to cover my bases i do all, and it tends to stimulate the brain i think figuring out just how to eat the next thing i pick out. My indoor birds are on tropican seed mix, roudybush and fruit and veg.
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I don't think you'll ever convince me that an all pellet diet is superior to one of variety, however I'm still interested as always in what you have to say.
