Help! Vicious Ringneck

[oceanaussi]

Ok, I haven't been on here since Sam died, therefore a quick update:

I received 2 young blue Indian Ringnecks - Sam and Jackie. While I was away, I gave them to a bird minder and Sam died. After lots of tests I assume Jackie mopped Sam so he couldn't eat and he just died. I don't know why the bird minder didn't realise that, Sam looked in very poor condition when I got him back from the Vet.

So since then I have Jackie all by herself and she's getting worse and worse. She learnt how to open her cage and disappeared - once even for 3 days! I have 2 dogs - one of them is a bird hunting dog (Weimaraner), she's so vicious, not even the dogs tried to attack her. I since put locks on the cage which I only remove to feed and water her. Outside of her cage she's really nice but as soon as I touch her bowls or cage she goes crazy. She bites me drawing blood every single day and now with the locks it's even harder. To be honest I don't like her much anymore and just don't know what to do with her. She once came out of her cage and attacked me! I'm frightened of her and on witts ends! Any advice?

[Jane]

Yikes

Poor you and Jackie

When you say 'nice outside her cage' do you mean you can handle her away from her cage? Is it a territorial thing?

[oceanaussi]

Yeah, I'm still pretty upset! Sam had such a beautiful temperament and bonded really well.

Well, when Jackie escapes, she comes to me when called, steps up, I can sit her on my shoulder and walk around - not a problem at all. But as soon as I come anywhere near her cage, she goes of.

[Jane]

Well it may be a territorial issue with her then. I'm sure a better companion parrot person than me will be along shortly but I'd say it might be worth changing cage for a trial, maybe if you could borrow one first to see if it breaks the routine a little. A least when she is out of this one change the branches and toys and location of food to try and reduce the posessive aggression. If she likes being out with you then start a routine where if she bites when you go to get her out, shut the cage again and leave her alone for a while, then try again so she learns to get the reward of coming out she needs to be nice.

[oceanaussi]

I tried the cage thing. Takes her 1-2 days until she reacts the same way. Also I don't think she likes being out with me because as soon as I take her she wants to go to her cage. i just don't get why she always trys to escape.

[bullibirdshow]

Dear OceanAussie,

I am so sad for your loss of Sam. How upsetting.

Now you feel like you are losing Jackie as well. This is most disappointing.

So I would suggest you slow right down.

From the information you post it does seem to be a territorial thing with Jackie.

The first rule is to not let Jackie to have access to your skin to bite you.

I would suggest two books "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor and Melinda Johnson's "Getting Started Clicker Training for Birds."

It bodes well "that when Jackie escapes, she comes to me when called, steps up, I can sit her on my shoulder and walk around - not a problem at all." The down side is "But as soon as I come anywhere near her cage, she goes off." This sounds territorial to me.

So whenever she is behaving in the cage drop a seed in to her seed bowl (from over head and not opening the cage). Try to get her to associate you being near the cage with your giving treats.

Don't lose heart this can be remedied with a bit of trial and error.

I know you are both still grieving over the loss of Sam.

Can you get a cage where you can remove the water and food without opening the cage? The first step is to completely remove your skin from her beak.

She escapes because she can and because it gets her attention.

[e-mail] is good to join for support in these issues and they have some great beginner files on their website.

Just take it easy until you start to settle down.

Cheers,

Kate

[vankarhi]

I owned a female IRN and she was the same. Possibly not to the same degree as Jacki though. She would bite and draw blood if anyone put their hands in her cage. Which made cleaning and feeding her quite difficult. But once out of her cage she was ok. But it got to the stage where no one except myself would handle her.........I was the only one brave enough to do it. (at least her bites were not to the same extreme as my female ekkie)

I have read the females can be like this and that they are renowned for their being territorial.

I have an internet friend in the US who also owns a female IRN and she apparently was ferral when she first got her and now can be a loving and affectionate pet.........but she does get handled a lot now as Terri has made a point of handling her and takes her out with her in the car etc. But then out of the blue Scarley (IRN) can become a nasty bird again and nails Terri good.

I would say..........I would wear gloves when taking her out fo the cage that way she can bite till the cows come home but can't hurt you and so you will be able to get her out of the cage without too much loss of skin on your part.

What Kate has told you about the birdclick books and site are great. I am a member of that group.......just don't participate anymore. I taught my ekkie girl some tricks too by clicker training her too. But she is now busy being a mummy.

But the main thing for now is .......... I would clip her, as that usually brings their attitude back into check and then I would wear gloves when getting her out of the cage if that is the issue. Then once out of her cage you should be able to handle her .......... according to what you have told us.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

I realise not everyone will agree with my gloves.......but I have done it when taming and training 2 sulfers and a galah and eventually did not need gloves to handle them at all. I have also used welding gloves with my female ekkie too.

[Jane]

This site has some discussion on cages for pet birds that mentions territoral probs in hens:

www.pamperedpeeps.com/sleepcages.htm

[oceanaussi]

Thank you so much for your kind words! yes, I agree I think it's a terretorial thing also. And trust me, I'm trying not to let Jackie have access to my skin! But she bites thru gloves and thru the cage!

I'll order the books and have a read.

I don't put my hand in the cage and I don't take her out or anything like that. When I come I always have some food for her. On occaisions he has even bitten me despite the food

I'm not sure if she's really grieving as she bullied him so much that he starved.

I don't open the cage when I change food and water, she bites me thru the cage! Sometimes she bites so hard and doesn't let go. Especially now with the locks I have to close them without gloves as I canot do it otherwise. I used to wear gloves but she even bites thru them and it might not bleed but bruise.

I take the cage inside and open the door so she can come out and do something. She's got a plant and a plyground and some toys but when she's inside (the house) she doesn't want to come out.

I am absolutly terrified of that bird! I've been hurt so many times and cried of pain so often, I cannot believe it!

What do you mean with "clip her"? Do you mean the wings? They're clipped.

The webpage is really intersting!

[pinkdevil]

How old is Jackie?

If she is around a year old or younger, she could be going through the "bluffing" stage. Or if she is older maybe she getting ready for breeding season.

It sounds to me Jackie is very attached to her cage.

You said that she comes when called, steps up, and will sit on your shoulder. Does she try to attack you then?

I have read to allow birds on shoulders is a no no as they think they are boss as they are at your level (eye to eye). Even though I do allow my Jasper to sit on my shoulder now, when she went through her "tanty stage" I refused to let her.

In the wild females are the boss and only submit when it is breeding season, so they will naturally try and rule the roost in domestic situations as well.

I know it is hard (I have been bitten and chunks taken out too numerous to mention ) but try not to react. When you react, in the birds mind they have won the round and showed you they are boss.
You said that you are now affraid of her, she can sense that and milking it for all it's worth.

Will Jackie come out of her cage voluntarily? If so, you could try to let her come out in her own time, (even with bribery of food some distance away from her cage, I have yet to see a IRN not think of their stomach lol , then when she is out, make her step up and take her to another room, then you could go back and clean the cage in peace............ and safety lol

I have read alot of different information on training and coping with IRNs. Some conflicting with others, so I have tried to take a bit from each and put together what works for the bird I have at that time.

For example, when Jasper bit me, I tried to divert her attention away from dismembering my arm with something she liked from a brightly coloured toy to food and saying NO!. Then, and only then, when she had stopped biting and behaved in an acceptable manor did I give her the treat. With her food treat it was something she absolutely loved and only got that treat when she behaved herself and at no other time.

Like I said, I don't know if this is the "right" way but it worked for me. If it stops the bird from attacking me, I get to keep all my limbs intact and the bird isn't hurt, then I think it is a good outcome.

I really hope Jackie settles down for you soon so you can enjoy her.

Good luck.

[oceanaussi]

Jackie is nearly a year old.

She only comes when called when she escaped an no she normally doesn't attack me then but if I don't take her to her cage straight away she does.

Trying not to react is pretty hard. In the moment I try to distract her with one hand while with the other I exchange food, close the lock ect.

Well she only leaves her cage to 'escape'. If I leave the door open she doesn't come out and if the cage is inside she doesn't come out either. Sometimes she takes food but as soon as she got it she attacks again.

With food she normally takes it out of my hand (not always), takes a bit and then takes a bite of me.

She's definetly leading the game. I sometimes let her escape on purpose so I can clean the cage. Pretty sad...

[vankarhi]

I honestly believe if you clip Jacki's wings it will make a difference. I am assuming you like your bird flighted.......if so then the wing clip will only be a temporary thing anyway until the feathers grow back......but until then it more than likely will help to stem the aggression.

I can guarantee your IRN will not be able to bite you through welding gloves......if I can't feel my ekkie biting and my toos (when I had 'toos) through welding gloves then you wont be able to feel your IRN.

Welding gloves only need to be on while you take the bird out of the cage as you have said Jacki is fine after that. Or maybe long enough to do some training and bonding with your bird until the bird learns to trust and not to bite....as hard and as often. (some birds will still bite from time to time.......I have one that does that).

[oceanaussi]

Jackie's wings are clipped. I have heavy duty garden and leather gloves. I'll go and have a look at some welding gloves too. At the beginning when she wasn't all that bad, I took her out of the cage and as soon as I let go of her she jumped into my face or some other sensitive femal body part and bit me. She's only fine when she escaped (and probably cannot get back in and is hungry) and she only escapes but doesn't come out if I open the door.

Strange bird...

[vankarhi]

I know it is not funny ....... Geesh I should know as I got attacked by my female ekkie yet again who actually took a good sized chunk out of my side and I still have a sore arm where she latched on and I had to throw her off me ...... and that was 2 weeks ago.

But your description made me imagine your bird attacking like my Skye.......and there is such a big difference in size.......your Jacki must have a bit of eclectus in her. ;D ;D lol

[bullibirdshow]

Hey OceanAussi,

I really feel for you. I know that some people I have been with have been devastated by the biting of their ringneck.

I know it is hard now but try to think of it as a stage she is going through.

Will she step up on to a perch?

Can you block her by having a big parrot toy to bite?

Does she have toys she can boss around and fight with? This can be most helpful in allowing pent up energy and aggression to be safely vented.

Have you read the book Parrot Problem Solver?

I am barracking for you. You can do this. I know it is really hard atm.


Come and cry on our shoulders as much as you like.

Cheers,

Kate



Do you give her daily fresh foliage that she can gnaw on? I would try packing the cage so she has to gnaw her way around. That will let her get alot of energy out. Make sure you get appropriate non poisonous foliage for her species.

Is she showering? Can you spray her for pleasure?

I would really suggest a cage that has a tray that you can pull out and clean and water and food bowls that you can remove without any beak time.

[oceanaussi]

Hi Kate,

thanks so much for your sympathy! I have the feeling it's getting worse rather than better. I tried having 2 cages - she's trying to attack me in all of them.

To answer your questions:

No, she doesn't step up on to a perch.

I tried blocking her with toys and food but she finds a way areound it so she can bite.

Yes, she has toys and a playground.

No, I have never heard of the book before.

Yes, she has fresh foilage - flowers, leaves, steams, plenty of fruit and veggies...

I haven't showered her for a while as it was so cold. But I normally shower her and/or provide her a bath. I've never seen her using the bath but she loves the shower.

The cage has a tray and the bowls are on these psuhing upwards doors.
I normally don't need to put my hands inside but like I said before, she bites thru the cage when I close the padlocks.

It's getting so bad that I don't want to feed her anymore as I'm scared. My partner has 4 weeks of in August and he can do these things then. He doesn't have a clue about birds but thicker skin than me. If she doesn't get better, he gotta take her or she has to go. I don't know what else to do. She used to take food - even seeds - out of my hand. Now when I reach her some food (larger foodpieces these days), she might grab a bite, might even take the food, drops it and attacks me then.

This bird is really driving me insane...

[avinet]

I've been reading the various posts in this thread with a bit of deja vu. It is a story that isn't that uncommon, and I have heard in our shop more than once. When you get a good ringneck they are one of the best (and hens can be marvellous as well) but there are some, especially hens, that do go feral, as your bird has done.

From my experience the only solution is to put her into an aviary situation, with a mate, set up for eventual breeding. When they are as bad as your bird then there is no hope of turning it around, and the simplest and least stressful both for you and the bird is an aviary.

Ringnecks that turn feral like this are often do so not as a result of their care and socialising but their genetic makeup. A couple of years ago I was hand raising a clutch of babies, including a grey one that was absolutely feral even as a baby. The other four babies were fine, but this grey, raised identically to the rest, would always try to bite my hand before getting stuck into the hand raising food. His behaviour didn't improve when he weaned, just a plain nasty bird.

Good ringnecks can be marvellous, like Sasha, our 15 year old lutino whose photo is below and who never bites even when his mate Jello and him have babies - and they are about to start laying very soon. So my advice is to move on and get a ringneck that wants to be a pet.

cheers,

Mike



Sasha on his back - at 15 years old.



Sasha helping to feed his baby with Jello in the background filling up on hand rearing mix and waiting her turn. Makes hand raising their babies a breeze.

[oceanaussi]

If I would get her a mate, wouldn't she go feral on that one?

[Jane]

Sasha & Jello are wonderful What a lovely family meal time.

[meandem]

What a lovely photograph. I have to say, the table looks a little like mine with the ice cream buckets, tissues, temp gauge etc