African Grey Help

[angelicvampyre]

A lady I know has one (I am attempting to get her to give it to me and have even offered to pay for it but no luck do far)

She has had Rick for 3 years in those three years he has not come out of his cage more then 3 or 4 times. The cage is small. Enough hight so that his head is not touching the top and his tail clears the floor but not enough width for his wings to fully expand.

She feeds him well and gives him fresh water each day however she is scared of him hence why he is stuck in his cage. He has no toys nothing to stimulate him. He has not started to feather pluck he just sits there, he does not register anyone coming into the room he does not interact nothing sort of like he is in a coma. the only movement you get is him reaching from one side of the cage to the other to eat or drink (he can do this without moving his feet)

The Lady is scared that he is going to bite her. I opened the cage (with her shaking behind me) and talked to him and moved my hand towards him and go response. I finally got my hand on his breast and stroked downwards and then removed my hand and closed the cage. While talking to the lady saying that he showed no signs of agression but if she is that scared of him then she really should get rid of him, he let out the smallest most pitaful "out please" request. I was in tears the whole way home.

I know that I can't take this bird on if I am able to convince the lady to give or sell him to me, however I am thinking my chances are small to none as she likes the look of him and she paid alot for him when she first got him.

However is there something that I can do to work with her to help her and the bird? What are the recommendations that anyone can give me?

Also if I get this bird does anyone know anyone living in or around Melbourne with African Grey experience that might be prepaired to take this poor guy on? I know of one breeder but she said that she would not take him on as she is a breeder not a half way house.

Any help would be great thanks in advance.

[Karen]

It is incredibly cruel up to and including mental torture.
Grays require mental stimulation as they are as intelligent as a 4yo human child. It would not be acceptable to put a human child in a single small room with no stimulation! Why should it be any different for a human level intelligent bird?

Abaleisha (Mary) a member here has Arthur an African Gray. Haven't seen her for awhile but I'm sure if we can find her contact details she'd be happy to help.
In members list (top of page) her accounts are: Abby & Abby-oldaccount
Maybe you could ask a moderator to see if they can email her for you as members only have the facility to PM if I remember correctly.

[zoey]

Yeah,Mary's the one for this question, l think Mickp also knows about these parrots not sure...

[Jane]

I would first establish whether or not she wants to keep Rick or not. I would think after 3 years as keeping him as a caged prisoner the answer is clearly no but unfortunately there are creul creul people in this world and I know why you cried the whole way home.

If she does then the first thing she must do is buy him a big enough cage/avairy that he can fly in if she will not let him out at all. (lets face it very little cost relative to the cost of the grey to begin with)
If she wants to start letting him out she should at least get a cage he can flap his wings in freely and climb around to various 'feed' stations to bring some variety into his days.
If he has a favourite treat she could start offering it so they have some interaction without her getting bitten. And work up to perhaps a bird room where his cage could be open during the day allowing him to be brave enough to leave the cage in his own time. Captive forgaing activities would improve his lifestyle without her having to touch him. Farseeker has done some great captive foraging 'you tubes' under the enrichment section of this forum or Birdkeeper sell a captive foraging dvd (having bought the dvd I'd save your money and the you tubes here are better) Your ideas with Elmo are great too

realistically she cannot possibly claim she likes poor Rick to keep him in such appalling conditions
It such a terrible thing when so many of us would desperatley love him and offer a far better home but cannot afford the price tag to begin with.

I don't know anyone in Melbourne to help you but maybe the breeders you met with the scam stolen birds thingy?

And on that note who sold her this bird without checking the cage/lifestyle to start with
Fair dinkum.

[angelicvampyre]

Thanks guys, She seems pretty suck in her ways and wants to keep "the pretty bird" so i will keep working on her. Going to put together some information for her and try and get him into a bigger cage, however I think the new cage will have to be open into the old as not to stress him out to much. Will keep you updated. Thanks again.

[robert]

Here is someone who could help. I don't think she has African Greys.But she would be able to help or at least refer you to a breeder,or whatever. web.mac.com/birdtalk/Site/HOME.html from Robert and Precious

[farseeker]

Sadly it sounds to me as if it's mostly a huge amount of ignorance here. Whether it's wilful or not, I won't get into.

What I'd try is gathering some some links to videos on youtube of great African Grey setups, what they are capable of (speaking, tricks etc)...and explain to her that if she puts in the time and effort that she could have that kind of relationship with Rick.

I'd also put together a list of links to videos showing some of the behavioural problems greys can develop and explain to her that the way she's keeping Rick now already has had consequences (in the lack of response), and these could get worse.

It's important that she knows the positives as well as the negatives. I'd also go with what Jane has said...

The reason I suggest video is because people often ignore advice or words they don't want to hear or dismiss it as 'they don't know what they're talking about' - having some video or pictures lends weight to what you're saying.

Foraging is also a great way to improve quality of life - that way she could at least give him something to keep him occupied without having to interact overly much if she really is that scared. I do think you should point out that she shouldn't have gotten the bird if she was scared of him in the first place. >_>

There are some basic foraging videos that I put together that are pinned in the Accessories and Foraging sub-board that could give her some ideas. While the dvd Jane mentioned is a bit dry in this case it might also be a good reference because it's dealing more specifically with larger birds and ones that have had traumatic pasts and behavioural problems. If you want I can summarise the dvd for you in a PM.

Good luck!

[angelicvampyre]

Thanks guys, my info pack is growing by the day! I now have a list of youtube vids etc... that I will burn onto a DVD for her tonight or tomorrow I also have printed out pictures and packs. I found a great breeder in SA (thanks Robert) who said that she is coming to Melbourne over Xmas and would be happy to stop by and see Rick and his owner. She said that she would also bring pictures and videos of some of her babies and how the interact with people and hopefully give the lady some ideas on how to improve his life. If not she is prepared to pay money for him as a potential breeder (I have been told he is only 4 and is DNAed a Male) this breeder has the set up to be able to have him in a large avairy as a free flight bird but it all depends on the bird and the current owner.

I think this was an impluse buy. She came into some money after a parent died, saw this video of an African grey and then went and found one and bought him (she got him froma breeder in QLD) but after getting him home and he grew a bit she started to feel scared of him, the more he grew the more scared she became. What is really sad is that he has never bitten her or shown any agression she has just got it into her head that he will. Also he thought he was happy because she was told and unhappy bird feather plucks and he does not so therefore he is happy *bangs head against desk* I spoke with her today (she works near me) and she was saying how she had thought about what I had said and now thinks that maybe he might need a bigger cage, I gave her Elmos forgaging box but I am going to have to go put it in the cage tonight or tomorrow for her as she can't even bring herself to open the cage.

Hopefully with some education we can get this guy a better life.

[Karen]

Good grief! Even with all the years I've had birds I would not consider getting a gray!
I had thought about it once, but when I started talking to people who had them and reading their stories I decided it wouldn't be fair on the bird. Impulse buy my word!

[angelicvampyre]

I would love one but decided to take on a "easier" bird and got Elmo... more fool me! But this is the case sometimes and it's a worry, here are please like us that really think about and would be in a much better position to take the bird on but we stop ourselves and then there are people like here to just take them on cause Einsten(sp?) looks sooooo cute.

[robert]

Sorry,if you have seen this ,Angelicvampyre
einsteinparrot.blogspot.com/
au.youtube.com/user/4zebird
einsteinparrot.com/youtube_movies.htm
from Robert and Precious

[vankarhi]

Bloody hell I only just saw this now. Sorry. It is not Mickp it is Mick (avinet) he owns 2 AG's.

Well for a start Angel (your name is too long sorry lol).......what you are doing is great. The fact the lady can see the bird "might" need a bigger cage is a start. I know it is a big ask, but if you can show the lady how to interact with the bird like you already have and show her that she needs to spend time with the bird. Show her he doesn't bite (and hopefully he wont) if you can get him to step up. Take it slow as I think the greys are a lot more "sensitive" than a lot of other birds. But if you can gain the birds trust and show the woman how to handle him then maybe that is a good start. Maybe show her to start with talking to him softly, then maybe trying to give him treats etc then maybe slowly putting your hand in the cage and gently touching his breastbone etc etc until you can try to get him to step up. All this more than likely will not happen in a few short days either, it more than likely will take a bit of time.

That poor bird.......how can people not realise that birds need stimulation?? They need to see things, feel things, play, walk around, flap their wings, scream, exercise??? Some people have absolutely no idea.

If the woman is open to "learning" about her bird, then buying a bigger cage and some toys is a great start. what about his diet??? Is he being fed properly?? Not just seeds???

I had someone buy one of my alex girls today and I spoke to her for a couple of hours in my house. We handled all my pet birds, I showed her how to handle the birds, how to make them step up. I showed her what my birds get fed every day. I told her and showed her the toys my birds have etc etc and she could see their cages. I have also typed an information sheet (well 2 sheets) on how to look after "my birdies" explaining their diet, and toys and even showers and talkability and general personalities etc etc. I did this because some people just don't know.

I hope you can teach this woman......it would be so worthwhile to see her have a wonderful relationship with the bird she bought. Otherwise I hope she realises it needs a better home......either way it is in the birds best interest.

[angelicvampyre]

Hey thought I would update, ran out to see her in my lunch break. She has gotten him a much larger cage that forces him to move around for his water and his food, however she has noticed that he feet now seem deformed, finally worried about her pet she got a male friend to come around and catch him and put him in a box and took him to my vet (I gave her the details) I figure my vet read her the riot act! She said that he threaten to get the RSPCA to take the bird off her and she has to prove that she is doing X, Y & Z otherwise he will follow up with his threat.

In the few weeks that I have been away, Rick has moved to a bigger cage as I said, she has also convertedthe room to a massive play room for him with ropes and swings and ladders and feed stations and toys etc... I mean this room is WOW I want to live in it. However she still is scared of him so he replaced the doors to the other room with glass (not the best choice but hey he can't fly so it's not to bad) and she literaly sticks her hand in and opens the cage, if she notices him go back into the cageshe sticks her hand though and closes it goes inand cleans the room and changes the water and feed.

I went into the room with her looking through the glass at me. It was only after I got in there that I realised how much bigger he was then my little guy Elmo and was trying not to freak out and praying that he did nothing agressive. What he did do was say "out, out out out out" and I said "Yes you are out" then he jumped on my shoulder and danced from foot to foot and then fell off me as he still can't grip that well (but I am told his feet are getting better then what they where just before xmas) when he fell off he said "ouch, opppssssssssss" which I thought was funny and thought that somewhere someone must have taught him to talk.

He seems alot better and has lots to interact with but I still feel sorry for him, hopefully if I go and spend time with him she will slowey see that he is not agressive and will warm to him.

Oh and ask for diet she always had that right so at least that was something.

[avinet]

I'm pleased to hear that your efforts at educating this lady has worked and the bird has a much brighter future than before your intervention. Hopefully the owner can start to properly interact with the bird with your continued assistance.

I have 2 African Greys as pets and they are truly remarkable birds and it was distressing to read your initial post, knowing what they can be like when properly kept. I didn't reply to the initial post because there was good advice already being given and it was in my really busy shop and hand rearing period.

Hopefully you can continue to help improve this bird's quality of life,

cheers,

Mike

[angelicvampyre]

Thanks Mike, I am hoping that it will get better and better. I put her onto a lady that does parrot training and hopefully she can work with them more as I know little to nothing about training a large parrot. I also gave her a copy of the book Alex and Me a must read for anyone who wants to get a African Grey as it shows just how amazing they can be!