To keep or not to keep

[angelicvampyre]

Charlie and I are having a few issues.

She screams pretty much all the time When she come onto my shoulder she has taken to screaming into my ear she is also being mean to Elmo. I am trying to work with Elmo to get him to stand up for himself but he is getting grumpy and annoyed me with and her and life in general.

I can't seem to find any information about training them not to scream so much. I don't want to have to give Charlie up but at the same time I am not sure how much more I can take or how much more the other people in my family can take.

I just can't handle the screaming. I also have not bonded as well with her as I have with Elmo, maybe because part of me has always felt that she has been forced on me as she came through the shelter unlike my other birds who seem to pick me.

Maybe I am just tried but any ideas on how I can deal or alter her behaviour to make my ears a little less ringing?

[farseeker]

I know how awful having a screaming bird can be - went through it with Squee after some housemates scared him half to death. He was afraid of people including me, but as I was his 'mummy' he also didn't want me to leave him because I was still his protector. Resulted in him screaming whenever anyone was around including me but if I was away he'd scream as well. Very difficult.

You say Charlie came to you through the shelter - do you know anything about her life before she ended up with you? It may be related to that somehow.

The key with reducing screaming is to find out what is causing the behaviour and sort of retraining the response. For Squee I used to spend a lot of time sitting where he could see me but away from the cage. Whenever he stopped screaming I'd drop a lychee into his fruit bowl (they were his favourite fruit). Over time he let me move the chair closer without screaming and eventually we got to the point where he'd only scream if he was extremely distressed and was letting me handle him again happily and wanting to spend time out.

I would try keeping a reward with you at all time - sunflower seeds in your pockets or something. If she screams, turn away and walk away. Pay no attention to her at all and make no acknowledgement of her behaviour. When she stops turn straight back around, walk up make a big fuss and give her a treat. If she screams on your ear take her off your shoulder, put her down and turn away until she's done.

Trouble has warning signs when he's feeling fussy and prone to screaming - he has a particular cry he uses before he starts up. If I call back to him or whistle he usually settles - this happens when he's feeling sooky and tired usually and just wants to know I'm around. I've heard of other people training a quieter noise to use as an attention-seeking response as well. I can't remember how it's done, but basically they get the bird to substitute the screaming with saying a word, whistling or using a quieter call.

As for her behaviour toward Elmo, for now I'd just have seperate play time with each. It's easier to tackle one problem at a time and some birds just don't get along so I'd work on the screaming first and then try to get Charlie playing nice with Elmo. She might just consider Elmo a threat to her attention - if she used to be a single bird who got a lot it'd also explain the screaming.

Also check for changes in the environment that may have set her off. Trouble goes off whenever someone walks by with a hat on, for some reason he can't stand them. If anything new has been added within the area try removing it and see if that helps - things like haircuts, changes of haircolour and different clothes are also things to think about.

I wouldn't give her up just yet - chances are if you do the problem will continue with the next person and she'll end up passed off between people because of it. Even if the first person she's with after you loves parrots they may well not be able to deal with the problem and there's no guarantee the next person will care to try and fix it if that makes sense.

If you have access to an avian vet I'd also take her in for a check-up and to discuss the behaviour, they may have a lot more suggestions to help you out.

As for the bonding issue, sometimes it takes time. For me with Squee, Anath, Zillah and Jedidah it was pretty much interest with exception for Jedi's nasty three-week biting period but that was a result of her previous home and once she'd settled we got along great. Trouble however took longer because I didn't allow myself the normal grieving period I take. I knew once I got to Mackay if I didn't have a parrot my parents wouldn't let me get one so I rushed into things and as a result it took me and him longer to have that connection. I think about three months before we were at the same point as I was with my other guys, and we both had to work really hard for it. Very much worth it though and I wouldn't change that time at all. It was a learning period and I'm glad for it.

Also remember that not all relationships between you and your parrots have to be at the same level. Perhaps she's with you so that you can help her through this problem and her 'forever' owner will come along later. You'll probably find that the screaming and to a lesser extent her behaviour towards Elmo has a lot to do with it though - it's hard to develop a connnection to a bird that seems unhappy with it's situation or you and is expressing it in a rather painful and wearing manner.

Good luck with her. Working her out of the behaviour will take time but I'm sure if you can work out what is causing it you'll be able to do it.

[Karen]

I'm in agreement with Alissa with the treats.
Maybe her screaming could be because she's still a baby and you've not long weaned her haven't you? Maybe she wants a "comfort feed" every now and again. Or it is constant?
I've got Boris and Sam at home and both are pets. Sam I handraised and Boris I did not but Boris is the tamest of the 2. I've just taken to trying to convert Sam to pellets as his biting has gotten out of control. I've also removed all sunflower seeds from his bowl and now use them as a reward (would go better if mother stopped filling his bowl with them!).
Since I've removed the sunflower seeds from his diet he hasn't bitten me once and his behaviour is better knowing he gets rewarded for good behaviour.
The trick is finding Charlie's favourite food which is difficult being she's so young.
Have you thought of keeping her cage in a separate room to Elmo and you? Bring her in for play separate to Elmo.

I'm sure after spending so much time with her you don't want to give her up and I'm sure she loves you to bits. Give it more time, seperate her from you & Elmo for awhile.

Good luck and I hope she settles for you.

[angelicvampyre]

Thanks guy.

farseeker she came to me as a 2 week old so I have hand raised her. I think maybe she is looking for sooky feeds so maybe I will re introduce them when I get home and this might help with the screaming. She seems to do it if she thinks someone is home so I think it is an attention thing.

I wish I could split them off into sepertate rooms but they way my house is set out and the other pets this is not possible.

I am going to try time out with her. Have been doing alot of reading about this. I am also going to get her a happy hut in the hopes that she will start sleeping better as I know she is still waking up during the night and maybe it's just lack of sleep.

I will keep trying. Part of me would hate to part with her but the other part of me thinks she might be better off in a one bird home.

[vankarhi]

I also was going to suggest treats when she is quiet and a good girl.......ignoring or covering her with a blanket or putting her back into her cage when she is noisy. As soon as she is quiet.....take her out again. Birds don't really understand time as such so leaving her in a long time out wont work, but short spurts and slowly lengthing them might work. Plus maybe even if she is playing quietly by herself.....reward her good behaviour.

Also as someone just said not all our birds will have the same relationship with us as either and they don't always bond with each other either.....maybe just accepting the way things are for now and just working on behaviour. Don't get emotional when she is noisy and let the other family members know not to get emotional (like yelling or telling her off) when she is screaming because the bird can see us getting "emotional or excited" and this can get the birds all exited too.

I hope this made sense.

[angelicvampyre]

thanks, see tonight she has been great, no agression towards Elmo, Elmo has been happy playing. She comes over to my shoulder and talks to me, no screaming in my ear. I also pulled all the sunflower seeds out of their mix and if they have been playing independent or Elmo says good boy then they get a sunflower seed. So far tonight the screaming has been less then it has been in weeks. Charlie seems to fly to me, I say another give her a seed and she eats and then flys back to her cage.

[meandem]

Sounds like you are getting it all under contol. That is great to hear!

[angelicvampyre]

now just to hope it was not a one off. I am working from home today and now they have settled I am going to let them out

[angelicvampyre]

Ok I have thought long and hard about this and I have made up my mind. I am going to look for a female King Parrot that has been hand raised to keep inside with Elmo and Charlie is going to be going. I feel sick when i think about this but I think it will be the best thing. Elmo is scared of her, he is not coming out of his cage even if she is locked in her cage. He has stopped talking and it breaks my heart and I have to think about him. As much as I love Charlie I think it would be better if she goes. As a last ditch attempt I am going to get a bird trainer in to work with me with both of them but if that does not happen then I will be putting Charlie up for sale and in a while. I hate having to do this but I think it is going to be the best thing all around.

[madaussie]

That is sad but you have to do what is best.I had tp put fred down the back
j

[Karen]

I know it must be a heartbreaking decision for you G and one you've thought long and hard about. You know your birds best and are doing what is best for them.

[avril]

sorry to hear that G, but as you said you have to think of Elmo and yourself as well, and if you know Charlie would be better suited elsewhere, and knowing you, you will find the right home for her.

[angelicvampyre]

Well I think I have found her a good home. Some time int he next week she will be going for a 1 week trial and we will go from there.

[vankarhi]

sounds good Angel

[angelicvampyre]

Today she went and did a demo at the local kinder. I picked her up took her there it was really god, have posted about it in Squawk Talk. Anyway came home to get dressed for work and got Elmo out, once he worked out Charlie was not there it was like a different bird! He followed me down to my bed room sat and my bed and talked to me while I got changed, I gave him a shower and then he sat on my shoulder while I cleaned up and put him back in his cage. It was like he was a few months ago before Charlie came. Really drove home that I am doing the right thing by him

[scots001]

This is a great thread and I think we all have had a screamer from time to time.

Mine was the large male moluccan... OMG could that bird scream and y'all probably heard him when he got started.

I didn't have him scream on my shoulder, just as well as I'd have dropped dead right there and then from fright... but if I left the room it started and I found a cheap duck call type toy that I stared to blow when he screamed and he shut up long enough to listen. Over time and yes, it took time I ended up with a "honker" instead of a screamer and so much better...

I decided th honking needed to be replaced so I bought the little blow type whistle that are for kids parties and when I blew that at him and the little paper thingy blew out toward his beak that stopped him again where he had to listen..
It's wonderfully peaceful now... ofcourse now it's party time a lot at our house... Big Boy loves him imaginary whistle ;D

[vankarhi]

There is a similar thread somewhere where Robert has posted a link about punishment or something with birds. I commented on the fact the man had a squeeky toy that made his bird/s quiet as they hated the noise and I suggested this was a good idea if it worked. Obviously it does work as you have proved and it is a win win situation for both us humans and the bird/s ;D Now to just find such a noise for my bird/s lol trouble is they like "noise" lol

[madaussie]

Yes finding the right noise is great on the ears looking for that nosie now with rocko he is so loud.
j

[scots001]

I read so much literature on what to do if you have a screamer on your hands.

One suggestion was to wear ear plugs... I got the ones you use in jet planes and even then I could hear him around the block though a car honking at me to move over, I was oblivious too..

Found out that the moluccan had the same decimal as a jet breaking through the sound barrier.


Back to the books and the experts (I don't think they ever had a screamer of their own) and I read to "whisper" well I did that and he failed to shut up but I don't believe he could read lips so another bright idea shot down.

Finally out of desperation and frustration I grabbed the duck call whistle in the hopes they'd swoop down and carry his sorry ass butt off with them... and he did shut up to listen..

I blew that thing so hard for so long it began to sound more like a freight train coming down the tracks... but it worked.

Peace and quiet... Now I'm deaf as a doornail.. come to think of it, maybe he never did shut up!!

[vankarhi]

PMSLOL just as well you don't need to hear to be in this place hey lol

I do remember reading that Molucans are the LOUDEST of all parrots......cockatoos actually but I reckon it probably is "parrots" ...... although trust me my ekkies can give a good cocky a run for their money. lol ;D