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Post by jusdeb on Jan 15, 2011 9:55:22 GMT 10
Its well and truly time for my little Corella to get his wings clipped .
Any tips on how to do this properly ?
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Post by Robyn on Jan 15, 2011 10:19:09 GMT 10
Look in the members section Jusdeb, i have posted a link on wing clipping.
Cheers
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 15, 2011 10:54:48 GMT 10
Thanks Robyn.
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raven
Addicted Member
Posts: 117
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Post by raven on Jan 15, 2011 11:32:00 GMT 10
Why? Why not leave him fully flighted? Modern research in the avian sciences show it is better physiologically and psychologically for birds to be left fully flighted. May I please ask you do some research on clipping before you do this?
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Post by Robyn on Jan 15, 2011 12:07:09 GMT 10
I would think that is up to the owner whether to clip or not & the circumstances involved. I choose to clip my SC Too without any mental probs at all. Avian Science can be a great thing but they can even get it wrong.
I am no Avian Vet or Scientist but have worked with companion parrots for many years & have clipped many birds for the new owner, I can honestly say i have never come across a neurotic bird yet. Even my own birds i have had reason to clip from time to time. IMO it's some owner's that create these physiological & psychological problems with their birds by the way they treat them. I think there is a lot more to it than just a wing clip.
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 15, 2011 12:34:07 GMT 10
I have researched Raven and its what I think is best for my bird . Its not a automatic thing that I do with any of my birds actually this will be the only 1 clipped , the benefits for him far out weigh the cons.
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 15, 2011 12:36:33 GMT 10
Robyn , with your cockatoos wings clipped is he able to enjoy walking around outside or is it still too much of a risk of losing him?
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Post by Robyn on Jan 15, 2011 13:13:13 GMT 10
Robyn , with your cockatoos wings clipped is he able to enjoy walking around outside or is it still too much of a risk of losing him? Both Deb, I would hate for him to fly away & i don't like my chances of harness training him. I know if he flew off i would never get him back as he is such a character i am afraid if found he wouldn't be returned to me. And he just loves following us around the yard, he knows where he can pick the chillies from & helps himself to the passionfruit as well. So all in all i think he is well adjusted. We are his second home & he came to us with a clip so he is used to it. To be honest what i have observed with my own babies in the past & have clipped wings & let them grow out, I have never had a single problem. Yes they do take a while to build up muscle so they can fly again. But i disagree that a bird that has been clipped & has grown his flights back needs to learn to fly again. It's the most natural thing in the world for them to fly & as soon as they can they are off. You can debate the pro's & con's of wing clipping untill the cows come home. My thoughts are if your going to choose to clip your bird just do it properly. I would imagine the mental probs are caused by a bad clip. An i can tell you i have seen some shockers as well. Cheers |
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 15, 2011 13:57:32 GMT 10
Thanks again , yes I agree about doing it properly and I know If Im not confident that I can do it Ill have to find someone that can show me.
I really think he will be happier if he can have a scratch and a waddle outside , it will add to his enrichment and all he loses is some very limited free flying inside a small home ( which is also dangerous for a bird his size),
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Post by avinet on Jan 15, 2011 16:54:44 GMT 10
I would think that is up to the owner whether to clip or not & the circumstances involved. I choose to clip my SC Too without any mental probs at all. Avian Science can be a great thing but they can even get it wrong. As usual I completely agree with Robyn. I had my pet shop specialising in birds for nearly 20 years, clipped many thousands of birds, and never came across a bird mentally bitter and twisted from being clipped. I came across many mentally bitter and twisted birds (and owners for that matter) but because of other reasons. I also came across many birds that were far better adjusted, and far better pets, when clipped as opposed to being able to fly. I have always thought that the anti-clipping lobby is more driven by animal rights views than practicalities of keeping a bird in a human rather than a wild environment. If the bird lives in an environment where flying is safe, and with no risk of escaping then it is great to let them fly. If there are dangers with having a bird flying then it is absolutely fine to clip them - as long as the clip is done properly. I heard of so many cases where a bird had been lost and they came into the shop and said "we had been meaning to bring him down and get hm clipped and never got round to it, and now he is gone" - accompanied by the sobbing kid who left the door open  Just yesterday evening we found a lovely tame mature green ringneck male on our verandah (he had no doubt come because he heard our birds) and who was hungry, thin, very tired and very relieved to have food and a cage to feel safe in. He had been clipped, had moulted out most of his flight feathers, and was just left with the last couple of clipped feathers on each wing. If he had been clipped he would not have escaped. If he had not found a home he would probably have been dead in a couple of days - almost too weak to fly any more and a healthy cat population around here - 3 of which are mine! So far I haven't see any scientific research that shows the psychological and physiological benefits from not clipping a pet bird kept in a home environment. All I've seen so far is opinions and not research and opinions in the pet keeping world are heavily influenced by emotion not facts. cheers, Mike |
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raven
Addicted Member
Posts: 117
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Post by raven on Jan 15, 2011 19:34:26 GMT 10
Will all due respect to all, wing clipping is old school bird care, I suggest you really do some research, read E.B. Cravens, Rosemary Low,Sally Blanchard, Chris Davis, (and many more) and you will see the leaders of modern aviculture are coming down against clipping. It is done for the sake of the human not for the birds welfare. Australian aviculture as usual is way behind the rest of the world...what else is new.
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Post by vankarhi on Jan 18, 2011 14:10:30 GMT 10
I have clipped in the past all my pet birds because in my situation it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to have a pet bird in my house without some degree of risk. I have had cats as pets in the past and though I don't own cats now, I do have 3 dogs and one of them is very movement orientated plus I had 6 children in the house of which 5 were older teenager types and older and one toddler at the time. It was near impossible for me to trust them to turn fans off before taking a bird out of the cage or to expect them to remember to shut screen doors or to continually ask them to put birds back into cages before they cooked anything or to expect them to remember to put animals out before letting birds out of cages or if I had birds out they would not remember that we had birds.........for me it was much safer to clip them. They still had plenty of out of cage time and my galah and cockatoos (in the past) even had daily time out to strutt their stuff around the yard and Bo my galah used to climb some of the smaller trees and she loved to forage around in the dirt and chew on nut grass's etc. I tried to allow my then pet female eclectus to have free flight inside the house about 5 years ago ....... but I forgot to put her back into her cage one day and lucky for me she landed in a sink of cold fresh water (no detergents) for washing fruit and veges........it could have been worse. She also developed attitude while unclipped. I clipped with much reservation because I did enjoy her having that freedom........but it was much safer for her. Now........I have my pet male eclectus Erik and he is free flighted and he is 2 and half years old now. He is a well behaved boy 99% of the time and I have no issues with him being free flighted. We have only one 8 year old boy living in the house now as the older children have all left home to be with their partners and some are producing lovely grandchildren for me ;D. But with only 1 child who is very very bird accepting and orientated the fan and door issues are not a problem and he is too young to cook for himself. Our cockatiel is also fully flighted but she cannot come out at the same time as my ekkies because they would bite her...........and my baby alexandrine Rikki is also fully flighted and he gets time out to fly around too but he also cannot be let out at the same time because the ekkies would bite him and he would bite the cockatiel (I have tried.........and still keep slowly trying). All my pet birds (Erik, Rikki and Snowy) will fly to my shoulder and it would be world war III if I let them all out at the same time and they landed on my shoulders together lol I also have a fully flighted 6 month female eclectus (not a pet just haven't sold her yet) and she gets the chance daily to fly around my house too. I myself choose to try to keep my birds fully flighted now because I can..............but everyone should have the choice to do what feels comfortable for them because I know how I felt when I clipped my birds in the past. I remember wishing I could risk keeping mine fully flighted and admired those who could........now I can. It is awesome to be doing the dishes and have a big green bird (or a littler green bird or small white cockatiel) fly to my shoulder to see what I am doing and to say hello to me........but not everyone is in the position to be able to do this. Personally as long as the bird is in a great home and being loved and getting the daily attention and time out to exercise daily ............... I don't have a problem with clipping as long as it is done correctly. I have seen some shocking clips let me tell you. But if a bird is clipped properly they can still glide down they just can't fly up. But then there is the risk of still losing them if taken outside because they might get caught in a wind gust or they might be due for another clip. I still would love to harness train my pets........still trying and hopefully will have Rikki trained soon. Then I will work on Erik. That is my personal opinion. This subject is such a touchy one............we wont mention the other subject that is touchy one (starts with the letter "P".........we ALL know what that one is and people will disagree on that one too  |
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 18, 2011 16:51:06 GMT 10
Yep the P word ...well guess what folks ...I got the Corellas wings clipped today and yes thats right I feed about half my birds PELLETS ...
My birds , my choice . Thanks for all the info folks once again .
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Post by Robyn on Jan 18, 2011 20:19:00 GMT 10
Very good reply Tracey. I 100% agree with what you have said. Justdeb your welcome.  If Australian Aviculture is so far behind the rest of the world I hope to god it never catches up. The amount of over seas owners of companion parrots that pluck, bite & scream & are passed on to new homes amaze me. I get sick of reading "i have a 2 year old parrot that has started to bite. What can i do to stop it. If it doesn't stop i will have to get rid of it" It seems to me that the knowledge of these leaders in aviculture haven't been getting their message through to the majority of bird carers. Preaching about how bad a wing clip affects a bird. I mean to say the feathers grow back. I am more for educating new owners on how to handle their birds so they don't have these behavior problems in the first place. |
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Post by Robyn on Jan 19, 2011 7:30:24 GMT 10
For what it's worth & i have Googled for the best part of the night & all i have come up with is maybe there is a possibility this is a reason for behavior problem but then these same leaders in behavioral problems that has been mentioned by Raven go on to explain how to clip a parrots wing properly. They also state that if you need to clip get it done professionally if you don't know how to do it yourself.
I really don't understand how someone can be so opinionated on the clipping of flight feathers when they don't know the circumstances surrounding the decision to clip or not.
When you breed & sell hand reared baby birds & you get these weekly calls from distressed owners wanting another bird. Some of the stories. My bird flew into the fan or out the door, my bird flew into the toilet or laundry and drowned in the bowl or was washed in the washing machine or flew into a window & broke his neck, or landed in the fry pan. Shall i go on, I have heard just about every sad story & that's only in the home. The ones that fly out the door never to be seen again or end up at the Vet Clinic only to be put to sleep because they can't be saved.
So if even the professionals have pro's & con's of wing clipping i guess that means it really is up to the owner & what suits their situation otherwise i would think that it would be ban altogether.
My personal opinion as to why parrots have physiological & psychological problems is one word the OWNER. The uneducated owner that jumps into buying a parrot without any clue to what they are getting themselves into.
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Post by flossy on Jan 19, 2011 7:42:07 GMT 10
All my birds are clipped. I have lost much loved pets through not having them clipped or not being clipped correctly. So even though, this is not my debate - I think it is every owners choice. I agree with what has been written about the way the birds are treated etc. All my birds know they are loved and they are all special to me. They all get their own time with me, as well as community play time which is rather hilarious! but none the less....it's entertaining....lol. Also my Major Mitchell, is clipped and she walks around the yard with us - like you said Robyn, they know where certain things are and it add's to their happiness to know, they are "free". She is gorgeous, not troubled at all - and is muchly loved by us all. Savannah toddles around and just makes sure she can always see us. We play peekaboo and hide and seek with her and it's a blast! I would HATE not to be able to have this experience with her, so if I am doing the wrong thing, then so be it. I wouldn't change it for anything. Thanks  |
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 19, 2011 19:31:42 GMT 10
He had a wonderful day today , grazing in the grass out the back , checking out the aviary birds and even when he did need to be in his cage he was happy to have a kip and a feed and chill out .
Certainly has been good for him , wouldnt want all my birds clipped but he is one that needed it for a better quality of life.
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Post by vankarhi on Jan 20, 2011 6:38:14 GMT 10
When Bo was alive she was clipped (she was my galah and I had her for 15 years). She was allowed out sometimes all day to just strutt her stuff and do her thing around the yard. She had the dogs bluffed lol ....... it was like moses parting water when Bo went near the dogs ........ funny to see actually because I had 2 staffies at the time and they took off when Bo strutted her stuff near them lol. Both my sulfer crested 'toos were the same.......but I will warn you that is how I lost one of my 'toos. I thought he was clipped enough.........and he got a fright and took off...........long story very short...........I never got him back  |
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Post by jusdeb on Jan 20, 2011 12:22:06 GMT 10
Yes it is scary to think that they might get enough air under them to take off ...other half has asked me to buy a harness for him , he is not as confident in the wing clipping as me ... so thats OK outside he can wear his harness which still gives him free run of the house and a little bit of restriction outside.
He is so much more content this last 2 days .
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Post by flossy on Jan 20, 2011 12:35:57 GMT 10
I was using a harness on my Major Mitchell, but she developed such an attitude towards it, so we were told by a bird behaviouralist, to keep it away from her....She seems so happy just walking around etc. She always warns us when there is something around that shouldn't be....and she also has my dogs bluffed, especially Squirt my Staffy......they actually play chasies...hehehe...it's funny to watch, and we always supervise her. I wouldn't have it any other way.....I check her wings each day before I let her out, as I am paranoid about her flying away......fingers crossed, the clipping is enough.
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