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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 1, 2011 10:27:32 GMT 10
I have had a cockatiel in the past that I have had to take to the veteranarian because of chronic egg-laying. After following his advice on reducing the daylight that she receives every day, I have found that this works well to stop the cycle. However, I have noticed that when I give her a lot of affection, she seems to revert back to the breeding behavior. My question is: Does she see me as a potential mate and does this stimulate her to want to breed again?
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Post by naughtyneophema on Nov 2, 2011 10:56:54 GMT 10
yes yes and yes
This seems to be fairly common in companion cockatiel hens, it is one of the consequences of domestication.
There really isn't much that can be done except what you have done and leave the bird alone.
However she may still keep laying eggs, as she is not getting the appropriate bio feedback signals from egg sitting.
The best thing for her really is to allow the bird to bond and breed with a mate and live outside in an aviary, she should revert back to proper hormonal cycling.
If you are not prepared to let her breed I am sure you could find someone who was.
Good luck!
Also make sure she has a Calcium and D3 supplement in her diet to prevent hypocalcaemia. I'm sure your vet has advised you on the effects of chronic egg laying.
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 3, 2011 8:45:09 GMT 10
Thank you so much for the information. Wow! I didn't even know this thing about biofeedback signals that they get from the eggs they lay and how lack of it can induce them to lay more. But there is one thing that disturbs me: how could I give up such a sweet, companionable bird to a male if it means she will never bond with me again? And I'm wondering if perhaps I am being too selfish and inhumane by not allowing her to be with a male...I'm open to your opinion about this. I do have a friend with a male cockatiel he said he would consider selling to me, provided I take care of the bird.
I do sprinkle ground oyster shells on her seed, but I have yet to find the D3 supplement in the pet stores over here. Do they need extra protein when they are laying?
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Post by naughtyneophema on Nov 3, 2011 10:27:13 GMT 10
She still may remain tame but with her problem the cuddles would need to stop and the time you spend with her limited. Is the cock bird tame also? I have a Pair of Galahs both tame the male talks and the hen is very affectionate and loves cuddles but I can only give her a quick pat now, especially being breeding season, so she can have her clutch with her proper mate and do normal Galah things together. I personally think getting a cock bird would be the way to go and put a box in there for them. When she is able to sit on eggs you will find that her chronic egg laying will stop, she may or may not raise a clutch to fledge but she will stop continually laying. For the safety and welfare of the hen it is the best thing to do. Every time she lays an egg the calcium is removed from her bones and muscles, which will lead to egg binding and nerve damage. You can get some liquid calcium/D3 from the chemist, if they don't stock it, they would have the soluble tablets which you can put in the water but you will need to make sure you don't over do the D3 as it can cause other problems. I use this once a fortnight. The liquid I use directly on the beak if any hen hasn't passed an egg on time or appears to be laboured, it's a must to have on hand especially with chronic layers if egg binding occurs. . I feed cottage cheese, a good egg and biscuit mix or hand rearing formula and loads of greens and some vegemite for Vit B. Oh and Tums (for teething kids) is great too, ovulating hens seem to search out calcium so you shouldn't have a problem of her not eating it. Cuttle bone and shells are not a good source of available calcium they are calcium carbonate which is hard to assimilate, this is why they last so long on the beach. A supplement is needed. Wow long post, I hope it works out for you and especially the tiel  edit: no they don't need extra protein or fats. Too much and then there is liver disease to deal with too. Good Luck ! |
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Post by avinet on Nov 3, 2011 21:36:24 GMT 10
A calcium/D 3 supplement in the USA (Illinois) is at www.justbirdstuff.com/Calciboost-Liquid-Calcium-Supplement-p-16147.html and for an article on calcium and birds see scas.org.au/html/calcium_for_birds.htmlIn general a supplement is not necessary if the bird is on a pellet diet - all pellets products contain plenty of calcium as well as vitamin D 3. D 3 is important since for a bird to absorb calcium through the gut wall it needs D 3 in the blood to mobilize the calcium - no D 3 results in very poor calcium absorption and hence potential egg laying problems in chronic egg layers. For a bird on a seed/vegie diet I would recommend a supplement be given once weekly, unless egg laying looks imminent, when I would increase it to alternate days, and even daily while egg laying is happening. I might also add that a bird in an outside aviary doesn not need a calcium supplement with D 3, since they get D 3 by being exposed to sunlight, just as humans do. So a supplement with high levels of D 3 could result in D 3 toxicity. To turn to the basic problem of your affectionate egg laying girl, it is a problem with some cockatiels, but as you have found fiddling with the daylight can be very effective along with a rather spartan diet to remove their hormones. I assume that when you are giving her more attention which you suspect is turning the hormones back on you are also going back to normal daylight times? My experience with cockatiels is that it will probably happen whether you give a lot of affection or not. Some cockatiel girls just seem to think they are chooks  I am a believer in keeping birds in pairs as far as possible, I think for even pet birds their quality of life is improved if they have a bird mate, and with cockatiels it doesn't from my experience make any difference to their affection to their owners. Of course having a male around (which I might add she isn't necessarily going to welcome with open wings) could result in fertile eggs and babies. If baby birds are not on your agenda then the eggs can be given a vigorous shake as they are laid, which will break the yolk before any development of the eggs has occurred. The egg is then replaced for her to sit on them for the 3 weeks until she gives up and leaves them. Actually I have found with my pet cockatiels that half the time a female or male won't properly sit on them anyway - too curious about what's happening around them to be happy sitting in a dark nest box. Some are in and out like a jack-in-the-box I think with an affectionate girl like yours that she may be happier with a mate, but only if that mate is also kept as a pet with her - she is not going to be happy in an aviary removed form the affection she loves. I have had affectionate cockatiel girls I have moved to an aviary with their mate and they have always hated it, and were ecstatic to be returned to the house again and return to regular affection. I have a 19 year old one - Lacey, who is still with me, she spent time in an aviary since she had a rather nasty mate, but she so obviously hated it we decided that it was better she was separated from her mate and be inside, a decision she fully agreed with. And since we all like photos I shall include one of BB and Gwennie with their two babies, which has previously been included in the Eternal Quadrangle thread - see the links below if you haven't been entertained by a story that takes the eternal triangle to new depths  aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10250&page=1aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10263&page=1aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10276cheers, Mike  |
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 4, 2011 8:55:50 GMT 10
She still may remain tame but with her problem the cuddles would need to stop and the time you spend with her limited. Is the cock bird tame also? I have a Pair of Galahs both tame the male talks and the hen is very affectionate and loves cuddles but I can only give her a quick pat now, especially being breeding season, so she can have her clutch with her proper mate and do normal Galah things together. I personally think getting a cock bird would be the way to go and put a box in there for them. When she is able to sit on eggs you will find that her chronic egg laying will stop, she may or may not raise a clutch to fledge but she will stop continually laying. For the safety and welfare of the hen it is the best thing to do. Every time she lays an egg the calcium is removed from her bones and muscles, which will lead to egg binding and nerve damage. You can get some liquid calcium/D3 from the chemist, if they don't stock it, they would have the soluble tablets which you can put in the water but you will need to make sure you don't over do the D3 as it can cause other problems. I use this once a fortnight. The liquid I use directly on the beak if any hen hasn't passed an egg on time or appears to be laboured, it's a must to have on hand especially with chronic layers if egg binding occurs. . I feed cottage cheese, a good egg and biscuit mix or hand rearing formula and loads of greens and some vegemite for Vit B. Oh and Tums (for teething kids) is great too, ovulating hens seem to search out calcium so you shouldn't have a problem of her not eating it. Cuttle bone and shells are not a good source of available calcium they are calcium carbonate which is hard to assimilate, this is why they last so long on the beach. A supplement is needed. Wow long post, I hope it works out for you and especially the tiel edit: no they don't need extra protein or fats. Too much and then there is liver disease to deal with too. Good Luck ! Thanks for getting back to me. The male I am considering is not tame, but the person I mentioned (who raises all kinds of birds in his pet shop) told me he would honor it if I wanted to wait for a tame one. He occassionally gets birds that people no longer want or are no longer able to keep. He finally just gave up his African Grey to a person he knows and trusts and said he felt at peace with this. And I appreciate the fact that he isn't so much in the business of selling pets as he is in being a safe haven for them until they find homes. He always trys to be honest with customers about the characteristics and responsibilities of a certain animal. He said that he feels comfortable selling me one of his cockatiels, but that a larger parrot would not be a good match for me and I agree. Thank you for the information on suitable sources of calcium. I didn't know that the oyster shells I have been giving my hen was not a readily absorbed form of calcium. Come to think of it, I remember having to give my bird the liquid calcium from the veteranarian after she was hospitalized for egg-binding and he did the emergency surgery to remove the egg. I know that she's trying to start a family for me, which is very nice of her. And even after she's layed eggs, if she's sitting on top of her cage she's just as docile as can be. But once she's sitting on those eggs, I can't come near her. It's almost like she's possessed all of a sudden! What's a grandmother to do...Ha! |
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 4, 2011 9:16:52 GMT 10
A calcium/D 3 supplement in the USA (Illinois) is at www.justbirdstuff.com/Calciboost-Liquid-Calcium-Supplement-p-16147.html and for an article on calcium and birds see scas.org.au/html/calcium_for_birds.htmlIn general a supplement is not necessary if the bird is on a pellet diet - all pellets products contain plenty of calcium as well as vitamin D 3. D 3 is important since for a bird to absorb calcium through the gut wall it needs D 3 in the blood to mobilize the calcium - no D 3 results in very poor calcium absorption and hence potential egg laying problems in chronic egg layers. For a bird on a seed/vegie diet I would recommend a supplement be given once weekly, unless egg laying looks imminent, when I would increase it to alternate days, and even daily while egg laying is happening. I might also add that a bird in an outside aviary doesn not need a calcium supplement with D 3, since they get D 3 by being exposed to sunlight, just as humans do. So a supplement with high levels of D 3 could result in D 3 toxicity. To turn to the basic problem of your affectionate egg laying girl, it is a problem with some cockatiels, but as you have found fiddling with the daylight can be very effective along with a rather spartan diet to remove their hormones. I assume that when you are giving her more attention which you suspect is turning the hormones back on you are also going back to normal daylight times? My experience with cockatiels is that it will probably happen whether you give a lot of affection or not. Some cockatiel girls just seem to think they are chooks I am a believer in keeping birds in pairs as far as possible, I think for even pet birds their quality of life is improved if they have a bird mate, and with cockatiels it doesn't from my experience make any difference to their affection to their owners. Of course having a male around (which I might add she isn't necessarily going to welcome with open wings) could result in fertile eggs and babies. If baby birds are not on your agenda then the eggs can be given a vigorous shake as they are laid, which will break the yolk before any development of the eggs has occurred. The egg is then replaced for her to sit on them for the 3 weeks until she gives up and leaves them. Actually I have found with my pet cockatiels that half the time a female or male won't properly sit on them anyway - too curious about what's happening around them to be happy sitting in a dark nest box. Some are in and out like a jack-in-the-box I think with an affectionate girl like yours that she may be happier with a mate, but only if that mate is also kept as a pet with her - she is not going to be happy in an aviary removed form the affection she loves. I have had affectionate cockatiel girls I have moved to an aviary with their mate and they have always hated it, and were ecstatic to be returned to the house again and return to regular affection. I have a 19 year old one - Lacey, who is still with me, she spent time in an aviary since she had a rather nasty mate, but she so obviously hated it we decided that it was better she was separated from her mate and be inside, a decision she fully agreed with. And since we all like photos I shall include one of BB and Gwennie with their two babies, which has previously been included in the Eternal Quadrangle thread - see the links below if you haven't been entertained by a story that takes the eternal triangle to new depths aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10250&page=1aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10263&page=1aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10276cheers, Mike Hi, Mike! Gosh, I'm so glad I found this forum! There has been so much important, useful information I have already gotten from this wonderful forum. You know, I had no one else to turn to before I got on this forum. You members on this forum really are the experts when it comes to this! Another thing I didn't know...and bless your heart for this one...I was hesitant about getting her a male because I didn't want babies. But you foresaw this and answered my question right on target! Now, If I do shake the eggs to prevent babies, how can I be safe the yolk was seperated? Candling? The person I am contacting in regards to getting a mate for her said he wants me to let him know how well he is accepted by her and will work with me on this. Also, I have another tame female cockatiel. Would you recommend me putting her in with the other female is she's with the male? I know it might sound like a dumb question, but this is the first time I have faced the dilema of mating one of my hens and don't have experience with this situation. I read all three of your posts about the family life of your cockatiels and all of it was so cute and funny! You could write a book. |
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Post by avinet on Nov 4, 2011 10:04:17 GMT 10
Personally I would wait for a nice tame male - in your situation you really need one that will step up, be well behaved and not bite every time you have to handle him. You are coming into winter so with shorter daylight hours it will be easier to manipulate the hen's day/night cycle to stop the hormones. So I would wait for the right one to come along, I wouldn't have thought it was that urgent. As a matter of interest, how many eggs would she have laid in the last 12 months, and how many egg-laying cycles has she been through? When we were breeding cockatiels seriously we would let our hens have three clutches a year, usually about 5 eggs per clutch. So 15 eggs in a year, all incubated and babies fed until 3 weeks when they would be removed for hand feeding, was not a problem for the hens, given good nutrition. Her behaviour while sitting on the eggs is entirely normal - most of my lovely affectionate girls would bite my hand off if I tried to mess with their eggs, but returned to being a lovely affectionate pet once the eggs were finished with. If and when you do get a male it is a bit tricky how to house the three birds. Do the two girls share a cage presently? If they do and you put the male in with the two (assuming the cage is big enough) then he is not bound to bond with the one you want him to - although he might decide he has well and truly landed in birdy heaven and do a BB - "bond" with both Probably need to know more on how you are housing them currently and what interaction there is between the two girls. And a final note for now, not all hens continue being chronic egg layers through their lives, many, if not most, go through a stage with it and can grow out of it after a year or two, and for those who continue there are a couple of veterinary options. Firstly there is the operation route to "de-sex" the bird, although that is a bit tricky for a bird the size of the cockatiel and perhaps a bit risky. But secondly there is a very effective hormone injection treatment that will stop the breeding cycle in it's tracks. We had that done last year with a couple of very hormonal Alexandrine girls that were driving us scatty with their hormone driven behaviour. They came close to getting it this year as well, but fortunately putting them on a subsistence diet fixed the problem this time around, but not before I got a couple of painful bites trying to remove them from the latest potential nest site they had discovered  . cheers, Mike |
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 5, 2011 8:13:32 GMT 10
My two cockatiels have come from 2 seperate clutches so they were not raised together when they were babies. The one that is not the chronic egg-layer used to share the same cage with her sister until she died of cancer 3 years ago. I now keep her and the other cockatiel in seperate cages as she attacks the other one if she's sitting on her eggs. They don't seem to be bonded, but will call out to each other if one is in another room.
As far as how many eggs she has laid, hmmm...it's hard to remember, but I'd say about 7-9 per cycle out of 3 cycles per year.
The one who's hormonal right now is driving me nuts, wanting to breed with anything that moves, including my hand. Would getting her a tame male settle her down and make her more quiet? Or would another bird add to the noise level? Also, can you tell if the yolk inside a shaken egg has seperated by holding it up to the light? Also...and I'm just curious...what other kinds of birds have you raised? You seem pretty knowledgeable.
I talked to the owner of the pet shop where I saw the male. He says he's got me on the waiting list for a tame male. Have a good one!
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Post by avinet on Nov 5, 2011 11:30:45 GMT 10
It isn't unusual for two hens to not be particularly friendly to each other, in cockatiels at least. We have 5 girl cockatiels ranging in age from 16 to 20 which share a cage, and none of them can really be said to be friends with each other. More a tolerance than a friendship. It is hard to say how getting a male will affect the behaviour of your egg laying machine - probably she will divert the hormonal attention to the male, but it depends on how she accepts him. Shaking the eggs will break the yolk and instead of a distinct shadow form the yolk while candling, there will be a dispersed shadow. Candle with a small torch in a darkened room - see aussiebirds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=breeding&action=display&thread=6758 A perhaps more certain way is to put the egg in boiling water for a couple of minutes and then when it has cooled return it to the female, or but some fake eggs and replace the real eggs with the fakes as they are laid - theeggshop.com/As for my background I owned a pet shop specializing in birds and fish for around 20 years until it closed and I retired last year. So I spent most of the day answering the sorts of problems that arise on the Forum. One of the problems of owning a pet shop is it can be hard to sell the really cute ones, especially when you have hand raised them, and so we acquired a rather large collection of birds, with currently 25 living in the house, and since we sold a lot of hand raised pet birds (as well as lots of aviary birds) I have hand raised around 30 species of parrots, plus miscellaneous finches and wild birds as necessity arose. Used to be pretty full on when we were at our peak, I think 38 babies at the same time was our highest count and at times we would be mixing nearly a litre of hand rearing mix (2 US pints) at a time. cheers, Mike |
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 6, 2011 7:46:40 GMT 10
Thanks for the info, Mike! So sorry to keep bugging you with questions about birds, but I have not had any other resource all these years and I've collected a number of questions for someone knowledgeable like yourself. We're so glad you're here! Have a good one.
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Post by AussieBirds on Nov 15, 2011 13:22:42 GMT 10
Thanks for the info, Mike! So sorry to keep bugging you with questions about birds, but I have not had any other resource all these years and I've collected a number of questions for someone knowledgeable like yourself. We're so glad you're here! Have a good one. Greyeagle you're not the only one who is glad Mike (Avinet) is here, we are so lucky to have Mike as a member and the information he gives us is always on the money I just cant tell you how lucky we are here. John |
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Post by anzac on Nov 15, 2011 18:18:42 GMT 10
I'm with you on that one ;D Mike predicted my turk Tilly's egg laying with 100% accuracy. He's been invaluable to me on many occassions on my foray into turks. Cheers Mike, I think we should all club in and buy you a really nice Christmas present.
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Post by madaussie on Nov 15, 2011 22:03:27 GMT 10
To true Mike is always there with great answers i think Mike should be the Quiz Master - for the site Thanks for the info, Mike! So sorry to keep bugging you with questions about birds, but I have not had any other resource all these years and I've collected a number of questions for someone knowledgeable like yourself. We're so glad you're here! Have a good one. Greyeagle you're not the only one who is glad Mike (Avinet) is here, we are so lucky to have Mike as a member and the information he gives us is always on the money I just cant tell you how lucky we are here. John |
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Post by AussieBirds on Nov 16, 2011 7:19:29 GMT 10
I offered Mike a position as Moderator, and anythying else he wanted, on this forum but he declined and said he would just continue to help everyone out, and boy does he do that.
John
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Post by avinet on Nov 16, 2011 21:02:43 GMT 10
I offered Mike a position as Moderator, and anythying else he wanted, on this forum but he declined and said he would just continue to help everyone out, and boy does he do that. John Hey John, I remember the Moderator job offer but I missed the bit about anything else I wanted - I was looking for a new car at the time as well!! Thanks for all the kind comments everyone - in the 20 years we ran our pet shop the providing of advice, whether it be fish (that was my speciality) birds or reptiles, was the part I enjoyed by far the most, and is the part I have missed since we closed. Good Forums like this, coupled with retirement, and the time that provides, allows me to keep doing what I enjoy. cheers, Mike |
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blinkybill
Newbie
My babies - Gucci the Ringneck and Blinky Bill my budgie <3
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Post by blinkybill on Nov 17, 2011 11:32:52 GMT 10
I have a question for you Mike.
I have a 6 year old female tiel who lost her mate last year. she lives in an aviary with a galah and lori (the three of them are inseparable!) and has just started laying again. she has collected foliage and has roosted in a corner of the aviary floor.
would she be desiring a mate and should i search for a male for her? or should i just leave her to the company of the lori and galah?
having dealt with this before i figured u were the guy to ask.
regards
Gabby
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Post by greyeagle1 on Nov 17, 2011 12:30:11 GMT 10
He really is on the money!
Oh, one more question about breeding behavior....Why does my non-egg-laying cockatiel get inside the cage of the hen that's laying and keep bobbing her head/body up and down and move the eggs around with her beak? It's almost like they're foreign to her.
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Post by avinet on Nov 17, 2011 17:28:58 GMT 10
Oh, one more question about breeding behavior....Why does my non-egg-laying cockatiel get inside the cage of the hen that's laying and keep bobbing her head/body up and down and move the eggs around with her beak? It's almost like they're foreign to her. They aren't foreign, she wants to brood them but probably isn't quite sure how to go about it. What does the other cockatiel think about her eggs being played with? cheers, Mike |
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Post by avinet on Nov 17, 2011 17:47:24 GMT 10
I have a question for you Mike. I have a 6 year old female tiel who lost her mate last year. she lives in an aviary with a galah and lori (the three of them are inseparable!) and has just started laying again. she has collected foliage and has roosted in a corner of the aviary floor. would she be desiring a mate and should i search for a male for her? or should i just leave her to the company of the lori and galah? having dealt with this before i figured u were the guy to ask. regards Gabby Hi Gabby, She would very likely welcome a mate, but if you introduce a mate in to your aviary you may well run into problems with the lori and Galah. While they get on well with the cockatiel you have, they may well not get on well with an interloper. In fact it is likely they would not accept a new bird. So if you wanted to get her a mate then it would mean separating them from the lori and galah to be on the safe side. cheers, Mike |
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