Converting Hoodeds to Pellets

[Gerard]

To Mike and everyone else who has taken the time to contribute and read this thread, I'll take some photos of Hototo & Chiku over the weekend and attempt to post them. I tried to take a few yesterday, but in the tenth of a second between when the fill flash went off (and I couldn't readily find a way to turn it off lol) all I was left with was an empty perch.

[vankarhi]

I will just my two cents worth here..........I use a product I buy from our local bird club called Moxidectin Plus to worm ALL my birds. I rarely used to worm my birds in the past except when I got a new one in and I just used one I bought from the local pet shop. But once I had aviary birds and they were breeding I would worm them before breeding and then after the breeding season. This one also did them for lice/mites and since I had a problem with lice for a while........I also use it on my chooks but we don't use the eggs for the few days I am worming them and then for a week after.........but my dogs get to eat the eggs which they love, during this time. Since using this I have not had to catch all my birds including the chooks/ducks and individually spray or powder them for parasites.

Oh and when I get a new bird I worm them too.

[avinet]

Feb 25, 2012 7:05:51 GMT 10 vankarhi said:

I will just my two cents worth here..........I use a product I buy from our local bird club called Moxidectin Plus to worm ALL my birds.

Moxidectin (also called Cydectin) is in the Ivermectin family of parasite treatments, but it is considered to have a larger safety margin - so is harder to overdose. It targets the same worms as Ivermectin - that is roundworm - and like Ivermectin also kills any blood sucking mite such as Scaly Mite.

It does not kill tapeworm and so I wouldn't rely on it as the only wormer for your chooks. Since chickens can and will eat insects, which can be a vector for tapeworm, I would be using a tapeworm wormer for them at times.

Actually it is always a good idea to rotate wormers. If the same wormer is used all the time then worms can develop resistance to the drug in that wormer. If a different wormer is used occasionally you will kill off any worms that are developing resistance to your main wormer. Actually in out shop we would use Wormout Gel for 2 months and then the 3rd month use an Ivermectin based wormer - usually Cydectin.

In your case Tracey, I would recommend using Moxidectin for 2 treatments and then Wormout Gel for the 3rd - that will catch tapeworm and ensure you don't develop a strain of roundworm resistant to moxidectin

cheers,

Mike

[Gerard]

Tracey, out of curiosity, how effective did you find it as a treatment for lice and mites and what other measures did you take in the aviary itself?

[vankarhi]

I was told the moxidectin plus is new and does do tapeworm and that is why the bird club here now buys it?? Yeah I was aware it was also cydectin and used it also on my "long eared guinea pig" too with no problems.

I have so far found it excellent in the treatment of lice and mites. I had a problem with them in my other house and was always having to delouse my chooks because there were trees in and around my chookpen and crows and other wild birds were always nesting and roosting in them and so my chooks had lice regularly..........I always knew when they had them because I could see them on the eggs and I would always end up itchy. I limed the chookpen a few times a year and would have to chase chooks and grab them individually to powder them with a lice/mite/flea tick powder........I think it was called skata 7 or the equivalent to it.

I have not had to do that now for about 2 years I think since using moxidectin plus or cydectin? I also had to do my aviary birds a couple of times.........had to catch them individually (which really stressed those not used to being handled) and put them into smaller cages and then spray the birds while leaving them there on the grass while I vaccummed out and cleaned their nest box's and aviary and then spraying the entire aviary/s (lucky I only have 2 aviaries) ....... it was a regular pain in the "butt" .......... but it had to be done. Then I would do my pet birds and any babies I had that were weaned. It would take me almost all day to do.

Now it is just 3 to 5 days of just putting it in their drinking water and withholding all other means of fluid for that time and not eating the chook eggs during that time and I chose to not eat them for a few days to a week after worming them too.........but do give them to my dogs during this time and if my pet or aviary birds need a boiled egg I also use them for that too........so they are not wasted.

[Gerard]

Mike, regarding our discussion about books. Given that you used to sell reptiles as well I would think that there is a better than average chance you also have of copy of "Reptiles and Amphibians of Australia" sixth edition by Harold Cogger in your library at home. I think I paid somewhere in the vicinity of $100 for this book when it was released in 2000. Now if you do...and it is like mine, in "as new" condition, I want you to jump onto ebay and have a look at what it sells for now. Keep it safe as it will be very difficult to replace and it will only keep appreciating in value.

[avinet]

Feb 25, 2012 15:53:30 GMT 10 Gerard said:

Mike, regarding our discussion about books. Given that you used to sell reptiles as well I would think that there is a better than average chance you also have of copy of "Reptiles and Amphibians of Australia" sixth edition by Harold Cogger in your library at home.

No I don't have a copy - I came into reptiles late in life. In the late 1990's through to the start of 2004 I represented the pet industry in Queensland on a consultative committee of the Qld Parks & Wildlife Service looking at both the private and commercial trade in native birds and reptiles. At that time reptiles could not be sold in shops in Qld and while I was the bird expert for the industry, I also had to learn about reptiles to be able to argue for their sale by shops.

That battle took 8 years, but in 2004 shops became able to selll a limited range of reptiles, and I was the first person in Qld to hold a commercial reptile license, and to sell a reptile from a shop - a Blue Tongue. My collection of reptile books was very much slanted to the care of them in captivity, I was not, and still am not, that interested in them in the wild, apart from a general interest in all things natural.

I looked at getting Cogger, but in the end satisfied myself with Wilson & Swan as my guide to wild reptiles. Now that is the only reptile book I still own - my other ones were passed on to friends more into reptiles than I ever was. That Cogger on Ebay is the 2000 6th edition - always seemed to be in short supply, the earlier editions are much cheaper.

When we had the shop and sold reptiles, I knew enough to answer most questions, but for the serious stuff we employed a reptile enthusiast who was happy to talk reptiles all day long with customers, leaving me to talk birds (my love) and fish (my real speciality )

cheers,

Mike

[avinet]

I stand corrected - moxidectin only does roundworm and mites but I checked out Moxidectin Plus and it also contains Praziquantel and therefore also does tapeworm.

I would still rotate occasionally with Wormout Gel to avoid moxidectin resistant roundworm developing.

cheers,

Mike

[Gerard]

Ahhhhh. Then you will definitely have Grant's Guide to Fishes. But, what is your favourite bird book? The one you generally go to when you see an unusual bird or come across something just a little bit different? Can you also recommend a book on the birds, especially parrots, of Papua New Guinea?

[vankarhi]

Feb 25, 2012 21:21:46 GMT 10 avinet said:

I stand corrected - moxidectin only does roundworm and mites but I checked out Moxidectin Plus and it also contains Praziquantel and therefore also does tapeworm.

I would still rotate occasionally with Wormout Gel to avoid moxidectin resistant roundworm developing.

cheers,

Mike

No worries Mike...........will do

[Gerard]

Tracey, was it in a liquid, gel or powder form? Was it readily soluble in water? It sounds like a very good product for anyone who has just acquired new birds. While this thread may have diverted away from the original question here and there, I think it is fair to say that we've all learn't a few things of interest.

BTW the maintenance pellets you suggested have arrived. Once I've used them up I'll switch over to the Roudybush that both Mike and yourself have suggested.

[vankarhi]

the one I have is liquid form and very very easy to use. I love it.

[Gerard]

Mango, how have you gone with your pellet conversion? I have found the my birds are more accepting of the Maintenance Pellets that Tracey suggested. I won't say that they absolutely love them as they pick out as much seed as they can from the rissoles first. Funnily enough it is the cock, who is the fussier of the two, who seems to be taking to it better.

I am also at a little better advantage with them now than I was when I started this thread, as I have a better knowledge of what they do and don't like and discovered that their favourite food was the leaves of snow pea sprouts. I started to use these as behavioural treats only and do not use them for anything else now. I also found that if I only had about 10 of them between the two birds that this would stimulate their hunger and they would have a good feed straight after training. If they've already picked all the seeds out of the rissoles then they have to eat the pellets...and this is what seems to be happening, especially with the cock. I have also decided not to use any vegies while I make my second attempt at the conversion.

Once I've finished the conversion (hopefully) and used up the Maintenance Pellets, I'll switch over to the Roudybush ones that both Mike and Tracey have recommended.

[mango]

I havent tried to convert them to pellets only per se yet, and have found that they both nibble at the pellets once they have eaten their favourite seeds or vegetables/fruits.

So I guess they are just like kids, when hungry they start with eating their favouite foods first and then go on to the next favourite etc untill they are not hungry anymore

With that in mind I now have 2 diffirent feeding routines.

Weekday Mornings:
Feed small amount of Seed
Feed pellets

Weekday Evenings:
Remove Seed & Pellets
Feed Fruit & vegies, removed after a few hours.

Im not at home during weekdays so I cannot remove fresh food during the day, and leaving it in the cage all day means it spoils/smells.

Weekend Mornings:
Feed Fruit & vegies, removed after a few hours.
Feed Pellets

Weekend Evenings:
Remove pellets
Feed Fruit & vegies, removed after a few hours.

During the week the seed gets polished off, and some of the pellets eaten. Fruit/Vegies always goes down well. Every third day they get Vetafarm SoluviteD in their water.

Fruits are Apples, Strawberries, Grapes.
Vegies are Peas, Green Beans, Snow Peas, Corn on the cob, capsicum, chillies etc

I have alot more time on weekends to spoil them, so the choice of fruit/vegies they get is greater and they also get Eucalypt (We called them bluegums in South Africa) branches etc.

[Gerard]

Mango, it looks like your birds will just about eat anything you put in front of them. Chiku will try anything once, but Hototo is far more cautious...with everything.

[Gerard]

Mike, apart from providing birds with calcium and other trace elements, does shell grit provide any other functions. I notice my birds will chew on their grit for some time before consuming it. I was wondering if it served the function of cleaning the inside of the beak, a bit like us brushing our teeth? If this is the case is there a substitute available? I noticed on the Roudybush site they advise not to provide grit with their pellets.

Sometimes I think that this thread should have been named, "Just ask Mike". Lol. Hope you had a great 44th Wedding Anniversary mate.

Best Wishes,

Gerard.

[vankarhi]

is it Mikes wedding aniversary?? Mine is tomorrow............or am I totally off the beaten track lol

[avinet]

Feb 29, 2012 18:42:33 GMT 10 Gerard said:

Mike, apart from providing birds with calcium and other trace elements, does shell grit provide any other functions. I notice my birds will chew on their grit for some time before consuming it. I was wondering if it served the function of cleaning the inside of the beak, a bit like us brushing our teeth? If this is the case is there a substitute available? I noticed on the Roudybush site they advise not to provide grit with their pellets.

I hadn't ever thought of grit as cleaning the inside of their beaks - an interesting idea, which maybe have some merit

Apart from acting as a toothbrush, shell grit is mainly a source of calcium, with the benefit that a bird will not get an excess of calcium since most of it will pass straight through and only what is needed will be absorbed. Hard grit such as rock or coarse sand grit has a role in helping digest seed and other hard to grind food. Shell grit isn't hard enough to do this and is rapidly dissolved by the acids in the digestive system. Pellets do not need grinding so that is why Roudybush will say grit isn't needed, but it also reflects the American views on grit.

There are conflicting views about grit. Australians and Europeans have traditionally regarded hard grit as essential for parrots to digest their seed, while Americans have traditionally regarded hard grit as killing their parrots. The truth is that neither are right - birds don't die from having grit available, and birds don't get malnutrition if they don't have grit.

Shell grit is fine to continue to give to your birds

I'm sure there has been threads on this in the past on the Forum.

cheers,

Mike

[avinet]

Feb 29, 2012 19:48:07 GMT 10 vankarhi said:

is it Mikes wedding aniversary?? Mine is tomorrow............or am I totally off the beaten track lol

No, you are on track Tracey, ours was on the 27th. We got married in 1968, a leap year, and wanted to get married on the 29th. but my mother vetoed that idea, and since we were penniless students and she was paying, we had to accept the 27th

and happy anniversary to you both for tomorrow

cheers,

Mike

[Gerard]

Tracey, hope you have a great day tomorrow. Not quite sure how wedding anniversaries came into Hooded Parrots and pellets...but, I guess it happens lol. I don't recommend a feed of grit and pellets with the champers though. ;D

Best Wishes,

Gerard.