Converting Hoodeds to Pellets

[Gerard]

Mike, your help and advice has been enormous here...not just for me, but for many others who have asked questions regarding other things, such as worming that they may not have necessarily started a thread for themselves. Most of the things that I and others have asked are relevant to most birds.

Has been humid, stormy and wet here for the last week or so, but as soon as we have some nice weather I'll take some pics and post them. I know you and Tracey can associate with the humid and wet bit. We haven't had the amount of rain you've had, but the soil, being clay, wouldn't be able to absorb it either.

I'll jump back on the book thread soon, but I'm in the middle of negotiating something at the moment.

Gerard.

[vankarhi]

I have started a new thread with some of the last post from Gerard............it is in Squark talk under the heading "weather"

[Gerard]

Well it looks like I am finally having success with switching them to pellets. Chiku is eating the pellets from the rissoles as well as the seed, but at least she is not just discarding the pellets. I just have to make sure Hototo is eating them as well before winding back the seed content. Definitely having more success with the maintenance pellets thanks Tracey.

[Gerard]

Tracey, out of curiosity, have you noticed an improvement in the quality of seed since the pellets have come onto the market? BTW I am slowly starting to cut back the amount of seed in the rissoles now that they are not so fussy about eating some pellet content once they've picked out the seeds. Switching to the maintenance pellets you suggested has been the trick here.

[mango]

Hi Gerard,

Can you upload some pictures of the rissoles? I need to get onto this conversion as well, will get some roudybush to start it as they only seem to nibble on the vetafarm pellets I have.

Cheers

Mango

[vankarhi]

I buy my seed from our local "feedbarn" ........ like a Rural type shop and his seed is pretty good probably due to a high turnover of produce.

I am not actually against seed........I give mine pellets or try to give them pellets just for something different. I actually bought pellets again due to Erik having a few problems and I thought maybe he was eating too much seed while in the aviary. All my birds however will devour their fresh stuff depending on what it is I give them. The alex's and Erik love their fresh food. The cockatiels love sprouts and Yindi like some fresh stuff like snow peas and the odd apple lol

[Gerard]

Mango, while I could upload some photos, you're better off jumping onto Youtube and type in Vetafarm Pellets and watch the video. It goes into rissoles and patties etc. This video will serve you much better than any pictures I can upload.

HOWEVER, WHAT I AM GOING TO TELL YOU NOW COMES WITH A WORD OF WARNING!
1) That awesome diet you supply your birds with has to go if you are serious about doing the conversion.
2) As Mike pointed out, "Just as oils aren't oils, the same goes for pellets".
3) Have a read through the Roudybush website and the Vetafarm website before you purchase any more pellets. This is more important during the conversion stage to understand how and why each company manufactures their pellets. I come back to this as I go on.
4) Vetafarm uses a method called extrusion. Their pellets are formed using high temperature and high pressure. Roudybush use a process called cold pressing. There are various pros and cons for both methods which I am not going to enter into here other than for the conversion from seed to pellets. I don't profess to be the Know-It-All of pellets and the suggestions I will give you come from my understanding of what is on each company's web site.
5) The process of converting from seed to pellet is very wasteful...as a matter of fact incredibly wasteful. Roudybush recommend changing their pellets every hour or so when used in wet form (rissoles, patties, etc) so that they don't spoil. This is due to their production method. Vetafarm come with no such recommendation when used in wet form. Now I love my birds just as much as any other member on this forum, but it is just not practical for me to leave work every hour just to come home just to put some fresh rissoles in the birds cage. Whatever method of conversion I use also has to work for me, not just the birds. Given that the weather here has been warm, humid and wet then the spoiling issue gains more importance. Given the waste issue, price also becomes important. Let's say I do the conversion using Roudybush and I stretched out changing the rissoles every 2 hours, then I would still be going through 6 times as much Roudybush a day compared to Vetafarm. I found if I made smaller rissoles the birds would just pick them up and toss them aside...and remember your birds are at least double the strength of mine.
6) The extrusion method of making pellets basically kills any bacteria, fungus or mould spores. This method is more resistant to spoiling quickly, however it probably doesn't taste that great to the birds. The cold pressing method doesn't do this, but it probably tastes better to the birds and could be argued that it may, or may not, be easier for the birds to digest the nutrients contained within the pellets. Ignore anything you read about organic this or organic that...it's just absolute nonsense. I challenge anyone reading this to put a watertight definition on the term "organic" and make it stick. If we are feeding our birds pellets whether they be in extruded or cold pressed form, then the term "organic" is no longer applicable.
7). The conversion is not an easy process. Certainly not as easy as is made out on the videos or in written form. Start with a 50/50 mix of seeds and pellets when making up the rissoles. Make sure that if the rissole crumbles then use a bit more water to bind it all together. Don't make it too easy for the birds just to extract the seeds without copping a mouthful of pellet as well. Every 4 or five days adjust the mix to reduce the amount of seed 40/60, 30/70, etc. Soon you will just have a rissole containing just a moist ball of pellets.
8) You must remove all fruit & vegies from their diet while going through this process. You can provide them a small bowl of fruit and vegies once a week, but no more. If you provide them with an out from eating the pellets, trust me, they will take it.
9) When you reach the stage of just the pellet rissole, your birds will not be impressed and they will let you know all about it too.
10) I have still not succeeded in getting my birds to eat dry pellets only, so my next strategy is to introduce some dry Roudybush pellets to the mix and gradually increase the content by 10% each week until they are on the dry pellets. Almost like a double weaning.
11) Given the spoilage and wastage issue I decided to use the Vetafarm Maintenance Pellets for the conversion process. Once the Roudybush pellets arrive next week I will begin introducing them to the mix.

Mike maybe able to advise us otherwise regarding the spoiling issue with Roudybush pellets when used in a wet form such as rissoles, but this info comes from Roudybush's own web site. I tend to agree with Mike regarding the Roudybush V Vetafarm pellets in terms of quality of the product. Where Mike's recommendation holds good weight is that he has used both for quite some years and therefore will have noticed the differences in his birds with regards to pellet v pellet v seed. Secondly, any advice that Mike has provided me during my brief time of this forum has;
a) Comes from the heart so that we may enjoy our birds just as much as he does;
b) Comes from a vast amount of knowledge accumulated over many years so that his passion and love of birds will hopefully also become ours.

What I do know is this, that if I offered pellets as a free choice for my birds with seed present as well, I'd be wasting my time as they would just ignore the pellets. Be strong and don't become weak with them. Keep persisting as it is a painful process...well at least it has been with my little friends anyway. Hope this helps. Sorry it's taken so long to reply, but I'm under the pump at work at the minute.

[Gerard]

Hey Tracey, I'm still kicking around, but have just been very busy. One of the things I really miss about going through the conversion process is making up their daily bowl of yum-yums, lol.

However, I've still managed to make some time to play with Hototo & Chiku. ;D

[Gerard]

Mango, I forgot to add something. Tracey and many others on this forum don't have their birds on pellet diets. They may or may not offer them as a "free choice", but I'm sure that their birds are happy and generally healthy. All the pellets do is provide us with an opportunity to feed our birds a well balanced diet so that we can see the them at their potential best and keep them for the longest possible time in best possible health. It is not the be all and end all. Based on the diet you have your birds on I don't think that they are missing out on too much. Believe it or not, mine are at that stage where they prefer the rissoles with some seed in it. They no longer prefer the seed on its own, but they won't cop the pellets on their own yet either, lol. The main thing is to enjoy your birds. Remember, birds in wild don't come across many pellet trees or tufts of grass sprouting pellets. And I'm sure Mike will jump in regarding his experience with using Roudybush in a wet form such as rissoles.

[avinet]

I've never used rissoles or similar wet pellet mixes to convert birds to pellets from seed. I prefer to keep my pellets dry - I've always been worried about wet pellets and bacteria developing. I certainly would not use Roudybush pellets for rissoles.

My method has always to have their regular seed dish with seed on the bottom and a thin layer of pellets on top of the seed. As the bird burrows through to the seed they will usually end up eating a few pellets, and realize it is acceptable food as well. I've never had a problem converting with that method. And having some birds around already eating pellets is a great way to get a bird new to pellets to start eating them.

Early this month I had to bring into the house from the outside aviary a cockatiel - Stumpy - that had never had pellets in his life. He went into the cockatiel cage in the house that only got pellets and within a day he was tucking into the pellets like he had eaten them all his life.

Also when I am trying to convert a bird I continue to give it plenty of veggies - I often find that their veggie intake rises at first during the conversion, especially when seed is first totally removed. And the more veggies they eat the better.

cheers,

Mike

[Gerard]

Thanks Mike, knew you'd jump in. BTW I found the reference to feathers falling out of moulting Hooded Parrots when worming. It's on page 63 in "A Guide to Neophema & Psephotus Grass Parrots" second edition. Knew I'd read it somewhere. I don't know whether this applies to just Hooded Parrots, Hooded & Golden-Shouldered Parrots, or Psephotus Parrots in general. Mind you, this book was written in 1997. Having said that, second to yourself, it's the best guide I have to this genus of birds.

Re using a layer of pellets on top of the seeds. These two just pick them up and toss them out of the bowl until they get to the seeds. I know, it's terribly ungrateful of them. I can tell by the colour of their droppings if they've been eating them. I also tried sticking them in a bowl by themselves up near the top of the cage hoping instinct might prevail.

[vankarhi]

here are the rissole pics and food pics that Gerard feeds his birds......he asked me to post them for him.

Ok it is not letting me host them without joining up now..........so it will have to wait for me to put them onto photobucket.......hopefully tomorrow I will have it done (if not later tonight). Sorry.

[Gerard]

Mango, Tracey has kindly provided some assistance with uploading the pics of the rissoles. The first one shows two dishes. The first is half full of pellets and the second one is one quarter full of seed. The second is of the completed rissole. Put the pellets in the bowl and add a dollop of water. Mix until sticky. Add the seed and mix. Then squeeze it into a rissole. If it starts to fall apart put it back in the bowl and add another dollop of water. When finished it should be damp and firm to the touch, not wet muck. The last photo is of their weekly yum-yums.

Cheers,

Gerard.

[vankarhi]

ok well I can't see Mango's ics so here goes....... these are pictures of Gerards food for his birdies. The only thing I am going to comment on is doe you have shallots in that fresh food dish?? I would be a bit careful with any of the onion type foods......they can be toxic.

[vankarhi]

about to post your intro pics and info now too Gerard. I decided to do them for you tonight since I was playing with some pics of my kitten anyway on the pc.

[avinet]

The only other book is by Stan Sindel and James Gill, Australian grass parrakeets [volume two]: (the Psephotus and Northiella genera). Around 200 pages, published in 1996. Stan Sindel is a very well respected Sydney aviculturist, probably into his 70's now, and he has written a series of self-published books on different native parrot groups. Lots of good husbandry and breeding information but his work on mutations is often a bit dated. And his writings was in BP times (Before Pellets) James Gill likewise is a Sydney avian vet of good reputation.

I had the pleasure of sitting next to Stan at a Grafton Convention dinner back in 1999 - it was a fascinating evening.

Worth getting for the serious Hooded Parrot fan - if it is still available:D

www.booksandcollectibles.com.au/bookfinder.php?book_id=348188883

cheers,

Mike

[avinet]

Mar 18, 2012 20:45:25 GMT 10 vankarhi said:

ok well I can't see Mango's ics so here goes....... these are pictures of Gerards food for his birdies. The only thing I am going to comment on is doe you have shallots in that fresh food dish?? I would be a bit careful with any of the onion type foods......they can be toxic.

Yes - the onion group can cause bad anaemia in birds. Best avoided completely.

cheers,

Mike

[twr]

Mar 18, 2012 20:47:42 GMT 10 avinet said:

The only other book is by Stan Sindel and James Gill, Australian grass parrakeets [volume two]: (the Psephotus and Northiella genera) ..... James Gill likewise is a Sydney avian vet of good reputation.cheers,
Mike

I didn't know James Gill wrote a book. He's my fid's AV, a very easy to talk to, down to earth type AV, who I'd recommend to anyone.

[Gerard]

Hi TWR, one of the funny things about this thread is that everyone who has contributed has learned something. It has gone off the track occasionally covered worming, pellets, books, weather and even wedding anniversaries. It's even spawned other threads, but then again that's what the forum is all about.

[mango]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the pics! Sorry Ive been quiet, extremely busy at work these past few weeks.

Mango and Chillie are doing well. Im still only adding dry pellets to their seed mix and slowly increasing the amount of pellets vs the seeds.

Mango seems ok with eating some pellets, however Chillie does not. Ive cut down the amount of fruit/vegies I feed them as Ive found that they will only eat their favourites (grapes/beans) and ignore everything else since they are full. Now they eat a better mix as there are less grapes and beans going