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Post by loriluver on May 8, 2006 11:09:07 GMT 10
I just thought I would ask the Qusetion.............. Why do people let thier birds cross breed with other species? I know it is done by experienced breeders and genetic experts for the purpose of a new mutation and the like, but why are novices engaging in this practise. More and more I am seeing hybrids/crossbreds for sale.   |
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Post by vankarhi on May 8, 2006 11:48:57 GMT 10
do you mean like a cockatiel and galah or within the same species, just different colours or different sub species?? I don't know the answer myself. I know with the cockatiel x galah it was supposedly an accident  I have heard of a 'too x galah and a corella x galah (those galahs sound like they will breed with anything. LOL). Maybe novices buy same species birds without realising they might be different colours or subspecies...........maybe?? I know myself I am NOT knowledgable about a lot of that sort of stuff. It is like with the eclectus...............I know there are quite a few subspecies and they can be hard to tell apart ...especially with the males and people might buy..........say a solomon island hen and then go to buy a male but they might buy a red sided male.............those babies will be cross SI/RS eclectus..........but most people would not really know the difference. My hen is a Red sided supposedly and one day I would like to get her a red sided male...........I am basically taking the word of the breeder that is what I will be getting because I do not know enough of how to tell them apart. I do have a little knowledge and would do more research to make sure for myself when the time comes, but maybe that is how some of the cross breeding is happening with novices anyway................just lack of experience or information. |
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Post by loriluver on May 8, 2006 21:28:58 GMT 10
Hi Tracey, No they are not cross breeding sub species. The ones on petlink are different species ie scalies and rainbows, musks and rainbows. I wonder if the offspring from these hybrids are fertile or not?
Tracey I have a pair of RS eckies. The female SI eckies are easy to tell apart from the RS's by the different eye rings and some difference in the chest colour but the males of both sub species are not so easy to tell apart unless you have them side by side to compare. A good book to get if you ever decide to get a mate for skye is A Guide to Eclectus Parrots by Dr Rob Marshall and Ian Ward. It outlines about 9 of the different subspecies differences.
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Post by vankarhi on May 8, 2006 22:01:00 GMT 10
Yes I have that book...........or actually the birdkeeper one and it is excellent. I can tell the females apart, by size and eye ring (in adults anyway with the eye ring.....or at least not babies anyway). But yes the males can be hard to tell apart.............especially between the SI and RS. It can be a little confusing  to the uneducated (which I am in a lot of aspects) ;D |
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Post by AussieBirds on May 9, 2006 10:29:06 GMT 10
I was at a very reputable bird shop on Sunday and saw some Rosa Bourke's that he had for sale and as I was talking to the owner he pointed out the marking on a couple of these birds they were yellow and blue on the back and lots of blue on the under belly, he commented that he had never seen Bourke's with these markings on them and wanted to know if i had. I asked him if they were hybreds and had been crossed with Scarlets or maybe Tourquosine Grass Parrots. He told me that the bloke he got them off is a reliable breeder and wasn't in to crossbreeding so he didn't think so.
I got to thinking that this must be the way new colour mutations must come about like this and then selectively breeding the offspring, personally I don't agree with the process but I guess it goes on as a calculated experiment in the bird world today.
John
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Post by loriluver on May 9, 2006 17:02:37 GMT 10
Hi John, Yes I know it does happen as you say but most of these breeders are experts in genetics. But I have noticed more and more the inexperienced playing around with crossbreeding then selling the offspring. It actually concerns me that this is happening and what is going to happen to the gene pool if these birds escape or are bred on further. Do you know if the offspring of these crossbreeds would be fertile?
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Post by AussieBirds on May 9, 2006 19:47:00 GMT 10
There is no reason why they wouldn't be fertile loriluver no reason at all as they are all from the same species, Neophema, and will probably breed on. Thats providing they were hybred of course, they just may have well been just a different colour mutation coming through, either way I'm sure if they were bred on no doubt they will eventually come through as a new mutation. I was almost tempted to buy them and give it a go unfortunately I am not set up for Bourke's, but it would have been a great opportunity for someone that was.
John
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Post by loriluver on May 10, 2006 14:46:35 GMT 10
Sorry john I meant in the case of scaleys x musks, rainbows x musks etc. would their off spring be fertile?
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Post by AussieBirds on May 10, 2006 15:37:28 GMT 10
Sorry john I meant in the case of scaleys x musks, rainbows x musks etc. would their off spring be fertile? Once again loriluver there is no need to think that they would not be fertile as they are of the same species genitally, if you think about it in the wild these birds obviously mix and cross breeding would take place so my thoughts would be yes, the offspring would be fertile. John |
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Post by J&JAviaries on May 10, 2006 18:31:37 GMT 10
Yes they will be fertile.
The majority of all Lorikeet mutations naturally occured in the Scaleys and have been transmutated into the Rainbows, Red Collars, Musk, Purple Crown and Little Lorikeets.
However, the Aqua, Pied and Melanistic seem to have occured in the Rainbows and will no doubt pop up in the Scaley and Red Collars very soon.
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Post by Laraine on May 26, 2006 14:02:40 GMT 10
This topic got me to thinking as to where the various coloured Red Rumps came from. It used to be that they were only green. ;D Now they come in all colours, surely you might think some cross breeding might have occurred.
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Post by AussieBirds on May 26, 2006 15:51:16 GMT 10
Yes me too Laraine, I'm sure this goes on in the bird world.
John
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Post by vankarhi on May 26, 2006 16:53:48 GMT 10
well isn't that how alexandrines managed to get different colours by cross breeding with indian ringnecks???
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Post by J&JAviaries on May 26, 2006 22:58:24 GMT 10
Red Rump mutations came about naturally.
It is when you have birds of the same family that look fairly similar that trans-mutating will occur.
All birds have the ability to breed new mutations, it is just a matter of 'triggering' those genes. In the wild new mutations wil pop up occasionally because a gene has been randomly triggered. It just happens more in captivity because birds breed more than they do in the wild.
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Post by silvercloud on May 27, 2006 1:27:35 GMT 10
As birds spend more time in captivity the natural mutations show up more as there is less predation on 'different' birds and the birds with the mutations are able to breed more successfully.
Blue princess parrots are also a natural mutation.
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Post by AussieBirds on May 27, 2006 11:01:56 GMT 10
well isn't that how alexandrines managed to get different colours by cross breeding with Indian ringnecks??? Cross breeding in Alexandrines is very prevalent Tracey, your right. John |
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Post by vankarhi on May 27, 2006 18:51:54 GMT 10
is that how come some are small?? I have seen some that look quite big, but I also read that there are 3 subspecies of alex's too (I think it said 3).
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Post by AussieBirds on May 27, 2006 19:42:35 GMT 10
is that how come some are small?? I have seen some that look quite big, but I also read that there are 3 subspecies of alex's too (I think it said 3). You can usually tell a cross bred Alex by it's size Tracey, I had three at one stage and two of them were obvious crosses. If you see any cheap Alexandrians around you can bet they have been crossed with Ring necks. John |
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Post by lillyvale on May 29, 2006 10:44:00 GMT 10
hello everyone,
I know that some would say you should not cross breed but sometimes it happens by choice - not ours but the birds.
Our story
We bought 2 musk loris which were supposed to be a bonded pair around 2 years old. They were lovely but did not seem to be interested in each other at all (as far as mating)
As it turned out we got a pair of scaleys which were of breeding age and put both sets in the one cage.
It seemed that the Musk male (Tex) took a fancy to the female scaley straight away (on her back and such) and there was a great ho ha in the avairy. The female musk was being harrassed her feathers being pulled out and not a happy environment.
Now this is where I might have blown it I am sorry to say.
Seeing that the original 2 musks were not mating I split them in two, leaving the musk and the scalley together who obviously wanted each other in the avairy and the other 2 were in a large cockie cage until I worked out where to house them. we had a pair of crosses before so as a novice I could see no problem.
But the female lori was pinning for her old mate and somehow escaped from the cage looking for him. She came back a few times but we could not catch her. Our neighbour eventually found her but she died. It was devasting for us all. The other scaley I sold to the pet shop for a small amount.
Sad as it was ....the two that hit it off and wanted to mate, have now got their first clutch and are great parents.
The thing is: if the scalley and musk never showed the interest in the first place I would not of considered it all. SO I GATHER SOME CROSSES ARE PERFECTLY NATURAL....I mean I didn't start the love affair afterall...just helped it along a tad or two.
Lillyvale
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Peter
Addicted Member
Posts: 70
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Post by Peter on May 29, 2006 13:49:46 GMT 10
I personally disagree with deliberate hybridising. Although it sometimes happens in the wild, it is very rare, and having studied it at uni, it is wrong genetically. That is why many hybrids are inferile. It is natures way of stopping this cross. However, when species or subspecies are closer related, they can produce fertile off spring. Mutations are natural occurances in the wild, so I have no problem with breeding mutations, but breeding hybrids to produce mutations is wrong! I think a good breeder would not do this
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I have heard of a 'too x galah and a corella x galah (those galahs sound like they will breed with anything. LOL). Maybe novices buy same species birds without realising they might be different colours or subspecies...........maybe?? I know myself I am NOT knowledgable about a lot of that sort of stuff.
to the uneducated 
