Why did Sam die???

[oceanaussi]

I had to work in Perth for a couple of weeks and I found an avid bird keeper over the 'Pet Directory' website.

I dropped the birds of and when I went there yesterday to pick them up I've been told Sam has died.

He seemed fine at first but apparently collapsed and then got taken to the Vet. I've got following statement from the Vet:
"Sam was bright this morning when carer returned he was sitting on perch - later was found collapsed on cage floor. On examination bird is emaciated - in respiratory distress - recommended euthanasia but Sam died before any treatment was commenced."

To me that sounds like Sam was in a bad condition. The carer mentioned that the chest bone (terminology?) is normally round and this one wasn't. It appeared to have been mal-nourished probably from an early age onwards which I don't really understand. What happened to Sam? Why is he dead? Jackie doesn't seem great either. I want to observe her today and might take her to the vet for a checkup.

Any ideas to that? It seems really odd and my partner who got the birds for us is absolutely furious.

[megzly]

could it have been that the carer wasnt caring for them properly? or mabye before you got the birds they werent cared for properly? Was sam handreared? sometimes if a bird is handreared incorrectly (eg. given wrong nutrition- too little feed and not often enough) it can cause problems

[oceanaussi]

Well, I don't know if the carer didn't care properly. How can I tell? They looked happy and healthy when I left them and now one is dead and the other one looks very lethargic (I'm not sure if she's grieving?)

Apparently they were hand-raised and the Vet and the carer both mentioned that they get hand-reared incorrectly (got them from a petshop). But if that was the case, why now? I had them for 4-5 months now and no issues whatsoever. Why now? Wouldn't it have happened sooner?

[megzly]

well if they were happy and healthy when you left them- and now ae emaciated and lethargic i would say something went on at the carers property.

Now some questions are:
did you see the birds on the carers property? where your birds being feed there usual food at the carers? was the vet Your usual vet or the carers vet, Did you take your birds to a vet when you first got them?

If they were handreared incorectly damage to their organs could have occured and may have progressed over time and eventually poisoned/ damaged the bird, im not that much of an expert. If birds are fed an inadequate diet it can cause liver problems (i think it is liver) and this is shown sometimes by little yelllow feathers popping up on the body of the bird, if the diet is not fixed and the bird receives inadequate feed for a long time i imagine it would die.

[Jane]

When did this happen? It wasn't last weekend was it when the temp here got to 40 degs? Could they have been left somewhere too hot?
Blame the handraising seems an excuse for an older bird. Was this an actual avian vet?

[megzly]

also was this vet an avian vet or just a general cat and dog vet, these are things you need to consider and answer to help solve this problem

[megzly]

oops jane got in before me lol

[courtzrocks]

Have they been around any new birds under your care as maybe another bird could have passed a disease on or have any wild birds been allowed near their cage? Birds tend to hide their sickness well so (in the wild) they dont get picked as a vulnerable target for prey. Hope your other bird is ok, she may be just grieving but i would get her checked up too. Sorry for your loss.

[Jane]

On that point from Courtney, it is possible that the carer had a disease in her birds that they may just be 'carriers' of but yours were vunerable to being newly exposed to it. It would be hard to tell or prove but a check up at an avian vet (not just a vet who says they do birds) for your other bird might reveal something.

[megzly]

i suggest finding a different vet to the one the carer uses too- sometimes some vets arent as honest as they should be.

[avinet]

Firstly since you had Sam for 4 or more months then any effects from a poor hand rearing history are unlikely. Ringnecks are pretty tough birds and will hand rear on the smell of an oily rag! I've hand reared hundreds and they are the easiest to raise of all parrots.

An important question to answer since it appears from your previous posts about the ringnecks that you handled them to bring them into your house, was did they appear at all thin to you. A thin bird will have the chest bone prominent, with little breast muscle on either side of it while a ringneck with a healthy weight will have plenty of muscle and a rounded feel across the chest bone (or keel bone). If Sam had good weight when you left then his condition must have deteriorated in care. If he was thin then he must have had an underlying problem before he went into boarding.

If his condition went downhill in care then diet could be a factor - Ringnecks should be fed eithe rpellets and vegies or a small parrot mix (=cockatiel mix) and vegies. Some owners make the mistake of getting a large parrot mix which is really only meant for Sulphur-crested 'toos. Even so Ringnecks are such hardy birds that they will survive a long time even on an incorrect seed mix.

The other thing is which day did Sam die - we had a really hot Saturday - 23rd Feb - and if it was that day maybe it was heat exhaustion if they were housed in a hot aviary or room.

I think it is important to take the surviving bird to a proper bird vet. The closest to you would be at Chermside - Arian Gallagher at Brisbane Bird Vet - he has the only bird only practise in Australia and is one of the top 5 vets in the country for birds. If you see Adrian get the name of the vet who saw Sam so Arian might be able to call him for more information.

cheers,

Mike

[vankarhi]

I agree with Mike on this one. You had your birds for quite a while with no apparent problems. Even if they were on the thin side (which most newly weaned birds tend to be a bit lean.......not thin but lean) you had them for about 5 months so providing you were feeding them correctly then they should have been ok. For them to go downhill so fast in a reasonably short period of time............if it were my birds..........I would suspect improper caring while in care.......just my opinion. I would also take your remaining bird to an avian vet. I take my birds to a vet near me who deals alot with birds and is quite good with them......but for serious stuff I take them to an avian vet in Bundaberg just to be on the safe side. My dogs go to a different vet.

Good luck and fingers crossed.

[oceanaussi]

Thanks for your input everyone - this is highly appreciated!

Yes, in my opinion they were happy and healthy when I left them. Jackie started to bully Sam a bit so when I took them out of their cage I fed them seperatly to ensure Sam gets enough food.

No, I did not see the birds on the carers property. He was living with his parents and they did not invite me in.

Yes, they were feed their usual food.

I never took the birds to a vet before and the Vet the carer used seemed to have been a general one.

I don't think they were fed an inadequate diet by me. I feed them the cockatiel mix, they had grit, cuttlefish and the black charcol one (can't remember what that is) and daily they got some fruits, veggies, sometimes bread, a little bacon ect. - no avocados, mushrooms, onions and no sugars and stuff like that.

What's been said about the yellow feathers: Jackie has yellow feed and yellow feathers around her beak and the carer said it's carrot stain. They never had carrot stain when I fed them carrots but I fed them raw...

It didn't happen on the 23rd, it happened on the 1/03/08.

They haven't been around new birds at my place but I cannot speak for how it looked like at the carers.

I'm going to pick my dead bird up tomorrow but I assume it's too late for an autopsy. Does anyone know of an avian vet I can take Jackie to?

They did not appear thin to me and they did eat a lot (sometimes 4 foodbowls + fruits/veggies). It was hard to feel as I mostly worn gloves when I carried them inside put when I petted them they felt alright.

I will make an appointment with Adrian Gallagher for Jackie.

I'm really upset! I know finding the cause of Sam's death doesn't bring him back but I just want to know if I did something wrong or the carer or if there was a health issue I didn't notice. Rest in peace, Sam!

[avinet]

If Sam has been kept in a cold fridge or even frozen it may be possible for Adrian to get something useful out of it, in combination with seeing Jackie. Keep the body as cold as possible until you see Adrian.

Adrian is one of the best vets in Australia - I have used him since around 1993 and the trip down from the Sunshine Coast has always been worth it. He isn't cheap but he is good.

cheers,

Mike

[just4birds]

I do bird boarding for a living ... and NO bird comes to me for a holiday unless they have proof they've been tested for the common diseases by an Avian vet ... i also get my own birds tested every 6 months ... I also have my customers sign an agreement form with all health details on it.

If you talk to any avian vet about boarding your bird ... the first thing they start to rant about is diseases ...

Alot of disease are passed on by feather dust , in the air or by poop ...

I'm sorry for your loss but i guess this will be an eye opener for people using carers or boarding place to find out as much as they can before leaving there birds.

[oceanaussi]

Thanks Mike! I will contact Adrian tomorrow and see what he can do.

@ just4birds: That's very useful information to me. I'm absolutely new to bird keeping and I've been told as long as I worm and treat them against fleas/mites I don't need to see a vet. I didn't know that you can actually go to the Vet and get the birds tested for diseases. I did ask here if somebody can make some recommendations to bird boarding but nothing fruitful evolved there. The only thing I know (well, at least been told) is that my birds were kept separate in their own cage and I gave him my toys as well.

An update on Jackie: She seems much happier today and turned back into her usual evil self (in that case it's a good thing). Maybe an autopsy is possible and I find out what triggered this. But I'm still sad and obviously I'm too darn stupid to keep a bird...

[Jane]

You have no evidence that it is your fault so don't say that please. Unfortunately these things happen often through no fault of our own.

[vankarhi]

hey .......... that is a bit harsh on yourself Oceanaussie. You are not to blame yourself for this. I honestly think it sounds to me like your birds were not being looked after properly while you were away. But even if they were being looked after properly and your bird had something wrong with him............it is not your fault.

[pinkdevil]

Sorry to read about your Sam

I don't get the feeling that your too stupid to own a bird. After all, you did what you thought was best taking your beloved birds to a carer while you were away. That is more than some people would do. I believe that you are a very caring person who loves their birds and wouldn't do anything intentional to hurt them in any way. So don't beat yourself up. You may not have even done anything wrong!

Good news that Jackie has improved ...see you must be doing something right!!

Tasha

[courtzrocks]

Yeah adrian has a bird hospital too. I hope everything goes well with jackie and dont second guess yourself about being a bird owner, these things can happen to anyone.